| "C gives 2K of binary for just a few source lines". Discuss. | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| What's there to discuss? | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Just use macros creatively | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| It doesn't take a genius ot make things worse | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| C timing loops... | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| tsk, tsk... | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Hard to make simple "hello world" applications | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Yes, I Do | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| and that's exactly the problem | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Generalisations | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| So stop blaming the tools! | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| C intentionally designed to support "clever" developers | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| It's not the tools ... It's the folks who choose them! | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| So don't keep blaming the tools, then! | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| I've repeatedly said ... | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| where is the qualifier? | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| ISTM that some things simply won't work in 'C' | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Of course that is true | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| exactly!!! | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| The reverse | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| But you have also repeatedly said | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| another misnomer | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| misnomer | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| It's not entirely separate ... but it is an eval-issue | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| That's a KEIL-specific limitation. it IS a KEIL problem | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| It is a universal problem for all software makers | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| last I evaluated ... | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| 4K Limited | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| One coud try SDCC, too | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Yes, this IS a problem for them | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| 30 days | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| locked tools | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| RE: locked tools | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| And ???? | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Do they need to use hammers for a few year before they can u | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Good Idea vs The Real World | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| In the real world... | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| get job in airline. | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Read the mail trail! | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| re: .. and that's exactly the problem | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Does it work ? | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| there is another reason | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| little bits of asm | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Not just fast | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| If you were the manager ... | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| What's the collective noun for False Assumptions? | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Going with that | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| It's a tradeoff ... Isn't it? | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| More generalisations | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| It's already been "rolled" | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| If that was Only True | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Not so fast ... | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| preaching to the choir | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| that whooshing sound .. | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Off on the wrong track again... | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Who cares which library? | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Talking out of both sides of the mouth | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| I just come to think of it and ... | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| You've got to pay closer attention, Erik! | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| the pot calling the kettle black. | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| In the real world | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| So, it's your position that cost doesn't matter? | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Complexity - not size - affects development time/cost | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| . | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Getting the Least Out of Your C Compiler | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| An excellent article | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| It is Programmers Decision | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Not so trivial to decide | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| The problem isn't with 'C' vs ASM ... | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| How many 'C'-coders would be willing? | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Not the worst examples, but the preponderance, Andy | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Much use of fixed-point in C code | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| It's not what they're taught to consider | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| I don't know about everyone else | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Now wait a minute ... | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Lots of people can't program... | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| What are you advocating, Per? | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Oh, Come On Now... | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| I have to admit ... | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| TTM and product lifetime | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| That's very true ... sadly ... but ... | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| if you really did do this you would come away a convert | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| C++ and 8051 are not a really good match | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| In general | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| C++ | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| C++ | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| oh, how 'crappy' they would be | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Don't be so sure ... | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| irrelevant to C or asm, | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Nobody has questioned your competence | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| you missed the point | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Don't you think design style has something to with that? | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| you must be off your rocker | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Don't confuse the tool with the user | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| What evidence? | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Maybe not so ridiculous ... | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| A + B != C | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Fine, but what are you advocating? | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| ass-u-me | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| There are things they can do ... but should they? | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| If you want 8051 user, push for efficient 8051 developers | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| few to none | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| this has NOTHING o do with C | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| I don't think so much PC either - just beginner accidents | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| That may be one of the reasons we disagree ... | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Not a short-story | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| which reminds me | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| It is worth exploring C properly | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| One has to be prepared. | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| You can't assume that just because it's ASM, it's messy | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| So your experience is >20 years out of date? | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Not exactly | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Just try some modern tools. | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| It's not quite like that ... | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Project management | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| I have to make a distinction | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| non-sequitur | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Hardly! | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Out of interest | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| My bad! Sorry! | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Negative reset too | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Yes, there are a few. | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| thoughts on this ... | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Real Programmers don't write assembler | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Ouch | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| What, hexadecimal?! | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Hex | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| That's how a lot of us started out ... | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| And then life stood still | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Is it 23 May 2005 already? | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Not exactly | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| 8kB of object code | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| If you'd had the experience ... | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| You can use a monitor or ICE or whatever | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| nostalgia is a great thing thing | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| C gives 2k.... | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Intel APP Builder | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Intel AppBuilder and similar | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
| Going off-topic | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
The are also MCUs with 1K | | 01/01/70 00:00 |
