| ??? 03/09/06 03:23 Modified: 03/09/06 03:35 Read: times |
#111655 - Recommendations Responding to: ???'s previous message |
I totally agree with Steve: You most urgently need a solid ground plane! So, you must use at least a double sided board!! Mahmood said:
The funny thing is that when I generate a sine wave output, the signal is pure before the low pass filter while it is thick and full of noise after the low pass filter. This is typical for ground noise. Mahmood said:
Another strange noise problem, When the reset button is held low ie the microcontroller is held non operational, the AD9835 generate clean sinusoidal signal, while if the microcontroller is working I get the thick signal again. Again a ground noise problem, which results from the ground return currents running between AD9835 and microcontroller. This ground noise problem can be solved by using a splitted ground plane: One ground plane, which covers the digital section, means the microcontroller and digital section of AD9835, and another ground plane, which covers the analog section, means analog signal OPamps and analog section of AD9835. Mahmood said:
I noticed that inductors pick up alot of noise. It's not a pick-up of noise due to magnetic coupling or charge injection, but a simple voltage drop, caused by the enormous ground noise. Mahmood said:
What do you reakon I should do?
Change my LC into RC filters? No, this will not help. What you need is a drastical reduce of ground noise, which can only be achieved by introducing a solid ground plane. Mahmood said:
Make each synthesizer and filter in a sheilded compartment? Maybe, if the introduce of solid ground plane should not suffice, which is rather unprobable though. Mahmood said:
Is single sided board good for SMD or do I have to make double layer with solid ground plane? You know the answer... Mahmood said:
I noticed my sine wave output picks up the 5MHz crystal oscillator of the microcontroller, should it be better if I change the oscillator into regular crystal? The 5MHz you see at sine output is simple ground noise of 5MHz crystal oscillator. These crystal oscillator moduls are very very dirty and produce a huge noise on supply and ground pins. Not only resulting from noisy supply currents, but also from ground return currents of clock signal running back from micro to oscillator modul! It's better to use the internal Pierce oscillator of micro in combination with this obligatory quartz. Keep the length of all clock traces to the absolute minimum. Banish all these crystal oscillators moduls from the analog section! Otherwise you will never get a clean and noise free signal, even when using a solid ground plane and supply voltage filtering!! In mixed applications it's wise to have RLC-filters in the supply lines of every chip, equally whether analog or digital! I use with success: 4R7 minimelf + "742792651" 0603 high current ferrite bead from "Würth Elektronik" + 10µF/10V/X5S 0805 cermic high cap from "Taiyo". Kai |
| Topic | Author | Date |
| AD9835 noise problem | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| noise | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Recommendations | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| quick fix? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Maybe | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Transmission lines | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| 5MHz? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Spectrum analyser | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| It's ground noise | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| ground noise and groundhogs | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Harmonics as well | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| comments | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Why separate the analog & digital gnds? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Splitting the ground plane | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Evaluation board | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| thin ground? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| that is why you use star | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Ground wire in parallel | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| and a twisted pair? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Would do! | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| does not exist, Jan if you used twisted | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| The clock signal? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| oh well | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Indeed | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| is there a way... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Hardly | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| unfortunately not | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| twisted pair | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| is that not obvious | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| No ground traces, but patches | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| the bane of many | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Why 1 or 2 layers | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| it's nice! | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| No Secrets | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| DALO 2M professional | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| UV ink Problem | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Mixed method? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| No Need for DALO | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| CE | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Single step mode | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| If you want... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| mmm | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Dreaming | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| LAYOUT | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| 100nF caps | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| 100nF ? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| ok | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Some checks | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| It's my daily job! | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Unfortunately, no | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| simulate double-layer | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Seperate Analog and Digital Supply | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| RLC-filters don't help? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| separate | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| And... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Seperate Supplies | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Evaluation board | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| No not that one... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Curly | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| OT: Hair | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| lets have pictures | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| No no... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| http://www.k6ese.com/Mar_Vista_Shack.htm | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| but it is relevant | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| No wonder... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| waveforms | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Link to DDS page | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Add the second stage... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Filter components | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| clock | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| What clock | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| ? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Sampling theorem | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| But... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Can't find it now | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Ground of probe? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| even better | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Good trick! | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| same point | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Both | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| I feel strong now! | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Funny! | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Depends... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Oh Dear | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| NO analog outputs | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| since there is no schematics presented | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Publishing failed | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| then give a link to an ORCAD drawing | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Schematics | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| corrections | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Big test | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Try This Schematic... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| one more problem | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| I miss the second 300R resistor | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Terminating Resistor. | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Answers | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| University of Kai | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Keep us informed... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| of course | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Update | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Eager to know | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Me too | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Autoreload | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Current source output | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Electronic World Feb 06 | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Superb! | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| No surprise | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| AD9835 Cycles | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Solid Ground Plane Update!!!!! | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Very nice results! | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Low frequency | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| SLIGHt correction | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| OPA27? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Cross talk on PCB tracks | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Have a look at this plot | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Interesting question | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
further interesting question | 01/01/70 00:00 |