| ??? 03/09/06 10:58 Read: times |
#111682 - Maybe Responding to: ???'s previous message |
Jan Waclawek said:
As a quick fix, would't placing the PCB on a piece of flat metal sheet suffice, at least to measure whether a double-sided board would suffice? I thought the purpose of ground plane was to stop signals from outside sources to interfere with the board and to stop signals emissions from the board to the outside. If noise gets generated internaly, how on earth can ground plane stop it? Maybe as Kai suggested on top, adding RLC to the vcc pin of each IC or oscillator to stop the leak through power supply line. Also signals on the same board interfere with each other if tracks are close to each other, remedy is to make 2 ground lines surrounding the track that carries high frequency signals or high current pulses to make interference as small as possible. Kai said:
The 5MHz you see at sine output is simple ground noise of 5MHz crystal oscillator. These crystal oscillator moduls are very very dirty and produce a huge noise on supply and ground pins. Not only resulting from noisy supply currents, but also from ground return currents of clock signal running back from micro to oscillator modul!
It's better to use the internal Pierce oscillator of micro in combination with this obligatory quartz. Wow, I didn't know that, I always thought an external oscillator is a superior solution in all respects... Is there an explanation, why the external oscillator is more "dirty" than the internal one? Does it have bigger power consumption, or is that the HF ground return "common resistance" which makes it "dirty", or what? Jan Waclawek I think the external oscillator is better than internal oscillator in terms of frequency stability, starting and signal levels. But the disadvantage is that it generates amplified signal and the track supplying the frequency is relatively long before it gets to the microcontroller so it acts as antenna transmitting rf. while the internal oscillator has a lower amplitude and since the amplifier is inside the micro, the track is shorter making less emmissions. Mahmood |
| Topic | Author | Date |
| AD9835 noise problem | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| noise | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Recommendations | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| quick fix? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Maybe | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Transmission lines | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| 5MHz? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Spectrum analyser | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| It's ground noise | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| ground noise and groundhogs | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Harmonics as well | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| comments | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Why separate the analog & digital gnds? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Splitting the ground plane | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Evaluation board | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| thin ground? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| that is why you use star | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Ground wire in parallel | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| and a twisted pair? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Would do! | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| does not exist, Jan if you used twisted | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| The clock signal? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| oh well | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Indeed | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| is there a way... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Hardly | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| unfortunately not | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| twisted pair | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| is that not obvious | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| No ground traces, but patches | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| the bane of many | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Why 1 or 2 layers | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| it's nice! | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| No Secrets | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| DALO 2M professional | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| UV ink Problem | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Mixed method? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| No Need for DALO | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| CE | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Single step mode | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| If you want... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| mmm | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Dreaming | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| LAYOUT | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| 100nF caps | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| 100nF ? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| ok | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Some checks | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| It's my daily job! | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Unfortunately, no | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| simulate double-layer | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Seperate Analog and Digital Supply | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| RLC-filters don't help? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| separate | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| And... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Seperate Supplies | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Evaluation board | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| No not that one... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Curly | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| OT: Hair | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| lets have pictures | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| No no... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| http://www.k6ese.com/Mar_Vista_Shack.htm | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| but it is relevant | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| No wonder... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| waveforms | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Link to DDS page | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Add the second stage... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Filter components | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| clock | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| What clock | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| ? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Sampling theorem | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| But... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Can't find it now | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Ground of probe? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| even better | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Good trick! | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| same point | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Both | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| I feel strong now! | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Funny! | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Depends... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Oh Dear | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| NO analog outputs | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| since there is no schematics presented | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Publishing failed | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| then give a link to an ORCAD drawing | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Schematics | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| corrections | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Big test | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Try This Schematic... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| one more problem | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| I miss the second 300R resistor | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Terminating Resistor. | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Answers | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| University of Kai | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Keep us informed... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| of course | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Update | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Eager to know | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Me too | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Autoreload | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Current source output | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Electronic World Feb 06 | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Superb! | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| No surprise | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| AD9835 Cycles | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Solid Ground Plane Update!!!!! | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Very nice results! | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Low frequency | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| SLIGHt correction | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| OPA27? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Cross talk on PCB tracks | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Have a look at this plot | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
| Interesting question | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
further interesting question | 01/01/70 00:00 |