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???
04/10/08 18:05
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#153123 - You really have missed my point!
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Erik Malund said:
in his post entitled the problem with Erik Malund said:
... JTAG is that you need to write a bootloader for on-site programming
Richard Erlacher previously said,
Why? I've never had to use a bootloader with JTAG. No JTAG programmable device I've ever used has required one. Bootloaders are used in place of more flexible hardware, I believe.

if you want your customer to do software updates, you do not want him to stick a JTAG adapter in and do it, that is where a bootloader comes in.

Well, a bootloader, though I doubt it would be necessary, could function over the programing interface just as easily as any other. Does your customer really care what the nature of the host attachment or device attachment is? Does he even know?

Keep in mind, please, that what I'm suggesting is that there be ONE and only ONE host-adapter, and ONE and only ONE device attachment allowing those same four signals, for all new field-programmable devices.


there will be a slight problem with the VERY small devices, you can not allocate 4 out of 8 pins for JTAG. Also just one pin (JTAG mode) could be a problem for these.

Erik

PS for my own purposes I really like JTAG, but have no intention of making that the option for field upgrades, I am currently developing "stick the USB stick in and wait for the message 'done' " for field upgrades


Erik,

If there were ONE and only ONE, programming adapter for ALL field-programmable devices, would it matter at all what's going on? The host computer, which is what the customer would attach in order to perform the field upgrade, talks through some channel. What does it matter how the channel is attached? Whether the host adapter is attached to a USB port or any other port, the adapter's driver software deals with that, and transfers the file following a rigorous protocol. Your customer doesn't know or care about the protocol. He just plugs in the adapter, runs the application, and waits for it to say "done."

It could, in fact, even be done over a USB-like channel, transferring one byte at a time and echoing it back, since it's half-duplex and very fast. I would NOT recommend the USB protocol, however, because it's WAY too complex.

As for the small packages, ... adding four pins wouldn't matter a bit, since you would simply put the device in a different package with more pins, and on a finer pitch if necessary. Some devices that have been around for decades have had programming protocols that used other pins than what one would normally imagine, just to tell it that the pins are now used for programming. Remember, too, that this 4-programming-pin mandate is not for existing devices. If you use a small package, what does it matter whether it has 8 pins on 1.5 mm pitch or 20 on 0.5 mm pitch, so long as the board area isn't increased? Nobody see's 'em anyway since they're on the underside. I don't like CSP's and BGA's, but they're what's "in."

RE


List of 26 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
programmer schematic for p89v51rd2            01/01/70 00:00      
   from phillips site            01/01/70 00:00      
      there is no schematics for that...            01/01/70 00:00      
   the idea behind ISP ....            01/01/70 00:00      
   actually, it's a good topic for discussion,            01/01/70 00:00      
      not an issue with his chip            01/01/70 00:00      
         that has been an ongoing problem            01/01/70 00:00      
            a horrendous thingy            01/01/70 00:00      
               It would, indeed ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  The problem with ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     oming to think of it            01/01/70 00:00      
                     I fear you've missed my point            01/01/70 00:00      
                        if you want your customer to do software updates            01/01/70 00:00      
                           You really have missed my point!            01/01/70 00:00      
                              issues            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 What do you mean?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    $0.10 may not sound like much            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Once again, I think you're missing the point            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          about missing the point            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             not exactly            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                you just keep at it            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   You missed again, and on several levels            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      you are the one that is missing the point            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         You just don't get it.            01/01/70 00:00      
   See the flashmagic manual            01/01/70 00:00      
      thnks            01/01/70 00:00      

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