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???
11/13/08 07:41
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#160007 - Tools are important for size
Responding to: ???'s previous message
I did write monitor, assembler/disassembler in Z80 assembler for a tiny home-built Z80 machine some 25 years ago.

I have a huge number of features with serial ports, SPI, GPS processing, alarm handling, real-time clock, ... in 4kB of assembler for Atmel Mega48, ...

In this case - any processor that would have 64TB of built-in RAM would not be called tiny for quite a number of years to come :)

M$ do set the criteria for software development. Their OS do consume a huge amount of memory before any third-party developers gets a chance to add own applications. And do not forget that M$ is a major supplier of development tools, courses in software development, application notes, ... which means that they in a very large part affects how new Windows programmers will learn their trade and will design their systems.

If a tool produces a 1MB large "Hello World" application, then the developer will not be surprised if a "full" application consumes 10MB. If an old Turbo C compiler produced a 4kB "Hello World", then it wasn't unexpected that a real application consumed 200-400kB. If the assembler tools could produce a < 100 byte "Hello world", then it isn't surprising when the developers manages to do huge applications (function-wise) in a couple of kB.

On the other hand, sometimes "big is beautiful" can be true. Sometimes, it is advantageous to take a larger application just to get a lower developent cost. An example is the use of associative arrays to index information. An application can then directly load data from a database and store in a sorted array - even if the sort key is a text - and directly lookup and work with entries.

But the reason I regularly do kick at M$ is that their tools and development concepts seems to always produce large applications - even when not giving the developer any real advantages in the form of quicker development times. It seems like they release new tools without somewhere asking the questions: Will this require a hw update to give expected performance for existing problems.

List of 34 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
a simple SETB question            01/01/70 00:00      
   SETB from 20h to 2FH            01/01/70 00:00      
      assembler missed this one            01/01/70 00:00      
         I know of none that can't            01/01/70 00:00      
   what about this?            01/01/70 00:00      
      try ORL to set any bit in internal RAM            01/01/70 00:00      
         wrong, nonstandard and why            01/01/70 00:00      
            ORL, Set any bit (more informative)            01/01/70 00:00      
               iram            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Where is that defined?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     my word was not 'defined' but            01/01/70 00:00      
                        a rose, by any other name ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           I think Erik has it?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              aliased/overlayed            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Fair enough            01/01/70 00:00      
                              pDATA?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Why do you think 64TB would be enough?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    It would not be            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Tools are important for size            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          That's why there's ASM to use instead            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       this flies against some previous posts of yours            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          It's like herding cats            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Flame bait?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                No ... not really            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   yes            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 PDATA & XDATA            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    I won't argue that ... but ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Agreed, but...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          It is seldom that simple ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             That's the point!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             since you are really interested            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Thanks!            01/01/70 00:00      
      Yes, that is the way I normally do it            01/01/70 00:00      
      WHY TO DISTURB ACC ?            01/01/70 00:00      

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