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Thread Closed: Became flame-war

???
02/09/04 12:48
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#64287 - RE: Steve, why so unfriendly?
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Kai Klaas wrote:
-------------------------------
is this your way to discuss? Just tear sentences from their context and offend people?

Sorry you feel so upset, but there are dozens of AC bridge circuits, not just the most basic and simple "Wheatstone" arrangements. AC bridges are BETTER than DC bridges. I want to enlighten you about ac bridges. Are you familiar with Schering bridges, Wein bridges, kelvin's double bridge, Heaviside-Campbell bridges ? No ? Not forgetting various RF bridges.
This was already discussed in this thread, and I wanted to enlighten the consequences of this a bit.

Erik is not without a hell of a lot of experience in Analogue electronics.......
And this corresponds to datasheet of AD630 from 'Analog Devices'. Here lock-in methode is described in detail. Lock-in methode indeed uses very fast synchronous switching from +signal to -signal from half wave to half wave.

Synchronous rectification / phase sensitive detection is a very powerful technique, but why do you assume that the bridge signal will be submerged in noise ? It rather misses the point about the technique. The nice thing is that it can extract phase and quadrature signals from the bridge at balance.
May be, Steve, that I missed certain applications, where indeed higher dynamic ranges are possible. But this does not mean, that my text is 'just WRONG'.

Alright, under limited circumstances you are "right", in your simple case, but to essentially dismiss AC techniques, as a result of your very simple analysis, is, well, wrong. I don't want your copious calculations to be used by anyone else as a reason for not considering the AC Bridge "because Kai said so".
By the way, if it is so easy to obtain 30bit accuracy with your AC bridge excitation, why are these circuits so seldom to find? How much do they cost? How much chips are needed to perform this?


I don't think you are looking in the right places ! And because people have forgotten the techniques, or never knew them in the first place. Try "Alternating Bridge Methods" by Hague (1942), or "Coaxial AC bridges" by Kibble and Rayner (usually in print). Also look for "Blumlein Bridges"

Some of these methods will extract femto-farads of signal in hundreds of picofarads of strays and parasitics, or sub micro-ohms in Kilo-Ohms. Others will work with ground tied loads, or floating loads.

ZERO chips are needed. It can all be done with simple discrete circuits. They DO need wound components, but basic multi-filar windings can be done on simple ferrite cores, rather than the best "MuMetal" cores.

Remember transformer bridges are THE method for measurement of fundamental quantities in national standard labs.

And are they really so competitive, that these so much simpler designs containing DC bridge excitation and chopper OPamps will disappear? This is what Erik wanted to know, isn't it?


My illustration was to point out that your dismissal of your bridge because it was only capable of 13 bit resolution was well wide of the mark.

Erik actually said
If one used AC, all problems re offset, drift and such would be eliminated.
And he is quite right.

Many dismiss the old methods as somehow obsolete, but there are many truths still in them.

Again, sorry you feel offended, but copious calculation and analysis is not a replacement for fundamental insight.

Steve


List of 15 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Weekend OT: why DC            01/01/70 00:00      
   RE: Weekend OT: why DC            01/01/70 00:00      
   RE: Weekend OT: why DC            01/01/70 00:00      
      Direct link            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Direct link            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Weekend OT: why DC            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Weekend OT: why DC            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE: Weekend OT: why DC            01/01/70 00:00      
   RE: Weekend OT: why DC            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Weekend OT: why DC            01/01/70 00:00      
         Steve, why so unfriendly?            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE: Steve, why so unfriendly?            01/01/70 00:00      
               RE: Steve, why so unfriendly?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  RE: Steve, why so unfriendly?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  RE: Steve, why so unfriendly?            01/01/70 00:00      

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