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???
08/27/08 14:48
Modified:
  08/27/08 14:55

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#157794 - Correlated and uncorrelated noise
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Raghunathan said:
Frankly I had to read your reply more than twice to partially understand it !

I'm sorry. I wished I could talk about these things in my mother language...

Raghunathan said:
Let me ask you this : I acquire 256 samples and take a mean of them to get one sample. Now if there is a peak at the 100th sample I am going to loose that with decimation ? right ? ( For purpose of discussion assume that the peak is NOT noise .)

It depends on what you mean by "loose". If you generate the mean from these 256 samples and throw away the 256 samples afterwards, then you have done filtering and decimation. Of course, if the peak sample is thrown away together with the other 255 samples, then it's away. But you still have it taken into account in your mean. (I assume by "mean" you mean the "average" of the 256 samples?) The question is, is it enough to have the peak considered in your average only or do you need it as actual maximum sample.

Why is it of benefit at all to do decimating and filtering?
In a typical mixed analog/digital board you have two kinds of noise, the correlated and the uncorrelated noise. I guess these expressions sound entirely wrong for an english native speaker, so let me explain what I mean:

When using analog to digital or digital to analog converters there is always a certain time window, where the conversion is highly sensitive to noise and glitches on ground or elsewhere, which can considerably warp the result of conversion. By correlated noise I mean noise which always takes place at the same moment relative to the start of conversion. Correlated noise falling into the sensitive time period will always detoriate the conversion in the same manner and there's nearly no way to eliminate it. You could eventually set the micro into a sleep or idle mode to smooth the board and keep the noise at a minimum. But doing any subsequent digital low pass filtering will hardly have the desired effect on this noise.

Uncorrelated noise on the other hand is noise coming from other sources on the board, where the timing is not correlated to the start of conversion. This noise can now be eliminated or at least decreased by an oversampling and subsequent decimating! Means, all you need to do is to sample your signal more often then needed from the Shannon-Nyquist sampling theorem, to do some low pass filtering afterwards (by a moving average over the too many samples, for instance) and to throw away the too many samples by substituting them by the average or mean, as you would say.

This methode is nearly the same as the one Michael mentioned in his post:

Michael said:
I have seen applications where noise filtering is done in a somewhat simpler manner. At the timer interrupt, instead of using the filter array simply take four or eight A/D readings in a fast loop and add then together and divide by 4 or 8. This scheme filters noise that is of the "digital noise" variety that rides on your analogue value.


Kai

List of 19 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Integrate decimate...            01/01/70 00:00      
   Strength reduction            01/01/70 00:00      
      >> = Divide and << = Multiply            01/01/70 00:00      
      Decimating            01/01/70 00:00      
         I have also used this approach            01/01/70 00:00      
         Thought process in frequency domain..            01/01/70 00:00      
            Low-pass filter            01/01/70 00:00      
               Low pass filter selection...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Sample a longer run at high frequency and analyse            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Good suggestion            01/01/70 00:00      
                  For your application...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Rooling average concept...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Moving Average Filter = Rolling Average Filter            01/01/70 00:00      
                           General concept vs. specific algorithm.            01/01/70 00:00      
            Correlated and uncorrelated noise            01/01/70 00:00      
               Your language ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               'Synchronous'?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Similar but not identical meaning            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Yes, sounds waayyy better...            01/01/70 00:00      

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