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???
05/04/06 03:05
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#115516 - Cures...
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Russell said:
If you've got low level signals, either amplify at the sending end or use differential signalling - this can mean just using a differential input using a ground wire and signal wire from the source unit. Ground noise should be cancelled out.

Yes, "should". But unfortunately, due to differencies in the source impedances of signal wire line and ground wire line common mode rejection by this methode is rather poor in many cases. Also, often this ground wire isn't referenced to the true ground from where the signal wire leaves, but to some different ground, often contaminated by different ground noise.

Only a true symmetrical signal routing will do the trick!

Russell said:
Some signals run in shielded cables, the shield is only connected at the ECU end.

Which makes the shielding inneffective at high frequency interference...

Why not learning from the PROFIBUS? Shield is connected at both ends to chassis ground, but signal wires are optoisolated, which gives you both: Perfect shielding performance even at highest frequencies by providing an entirely closed Faraday cage, and at the same time removing the eventual interference resulting from ground loops caused by the double grounding of shield.
By the way, signal grounds at each end of bus cable are soft grounded, by connecting signal ground to chassis ground via a cap. And, signal is symmetrical, is RS485!

Kai

List of 50 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Ground noise question            01/01/70 00:00      
   Chassis ground            01/01/70 00:00      
      measure what?            01/01/70 00:00      
   Shielding            01/01/70 00:00      
   I think mutual ground will be better            01/01/70 00:00      
   Ground noise            01/01/70 00:00      
      I'm with you.            01/01/70 00:00      
         the situation is like this            01/01/70 00:00      
            Try this            01/01/70 00:00      
               Disconnecting of battery while welding            01/01/70 00:00      
      Cures...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Shielding            01/01/70 00:00      
            Old tradition            01/01/70 00:00      
               New traditionalists            01/01/70 00:00      
                  What I want to tell...            01/01/70 00:00      
   Chassis connection makes sense            01/01/70 00:00      
      Not convineced!            01/01/70 00:00      
         Consultants ?            01/01/70 00:00      
            mmm            01/01/70 00:00      
         I don't know much about your application            01/01/70 00:00      
            I think this one has been missed            01/01/70 00:00      
               Differential, symmetrical...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Brilliant!            01/01/70 00:00      
               What about current loop?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Concept            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Injecting signal into gnd            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Insufficient common mode rejection.            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Go differential            01/01/70 00:00      
                        That's why...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           in other words            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Split ground            01/01/70 00:00      
                           So, how do you maintain a "clean" GND?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              There's no golden rule!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 back to the future            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    make you happy!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       write a c code in keil 2 operate e timer            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Err ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             so sorry...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          what is Keil 2?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Trying SMS style?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                naah, just early morning, fingers stiff            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 More thought            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Crazy            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Yes thank you            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Eh??            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Common mode noise of DC/DC-converters            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       why use isolated converters?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Exactly!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             air craft chassis            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Faraday cage ?            01/01/70 00:00      

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