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???
05/12/06 12:53
Modified:
  05/12/06 12:55

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#116054 - Common mode noise of DC/DC-converters
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Mahmood said:
Thats all fine Dear Kai but I'm solving this problem by installing DC/DC converter in every module connected to my car (or TRUCK) lets say. This way I avoid all the gnd loops problems.
I will connect each isolated gnd to battery gnd by 100 kOhm resistor say to stop static building up between two gnds.

You would need to do much more! You need a shunt for ESD-events, so that the barrier in the DC/DC-converter isn't destroyed with large ESD-events. And these can be heavy large in a car!

Another disadvantage of DC/DC-converteres is, that you will notice the develop of lots of high frequency common mode noise at the secondary side! This is due to internal stray capacitance which transmits the fast edges of internal switching noise right to the secondary output! I have seen such an application failing the CE radiation test!! So, you must provide for the common mode noise a short path to the source of noise, means to the primary side, which can be done by connecting a cap from primary GND to secondary GND.
But this makes your ground routing complex again resulting in resonances at HF. The additionally needed caps destroy the isolation you plan to achieve with the DC/DC-converter for HF and again HF ground loops develop. And this even if you don't connect the moduls to each other, just because there's huge stray capacitance between your individual grounds and the chassis, adding complex impedances and making your filtering efforts rather unpredictable.
In an earlier post you mentioned that the chassis plane will inject noise into your circuits. Yes, but that's right what you get, if you let the chassis float!!!! Don't forget the stray capacitance! Everything is in close contact to the chassis of your car, just because the car is made of metall. Only if you connect the chassis to GND at as many places as possible you will prevent the chassis from injecting noise! You would need a car totally made of plastics, to achieve what you plan to achieve by your methode!

Mahmood contact an experienced EMC engineer and tell him what you plan to and I don't think, that he will find it a good idea to keep the chassis isolated and to use many DC/DC-converters.

Kai

List of 50 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Ground noise question            01/01/70 00:00      
   Chassis ground            01/01/70 00:00      
      measure what?            01/01/70 00:00      
   Shielding            01/01/70 00:00      
   I think mutual ground will be better            01/01/70 00:00      
   Ground noise            01/01/70 00:00      
      I'm with you.            01/01/70 00:00      
         the situation is like this            01/01/70 00:00      
            Try this            01/01/70 00:00      
               Disconnecting of battery while welding            01/01/70 00:00      
      Cures...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Shielding            01/01/70 00:00      
            Old tradition            01/01/70 00:00      
               New traditionalists            01/01/70 00:00      
                  What I want to tell...            01/01/70 00:00      
   Chassis connection makes sense            01/01/70 00:00      
      Not convineced!            01/01/70 00:00      
         Consultants ?            01/01/70 00:00      
            mmm            01/01/70 00:00      
         I don't know much about your application            01/01/70 00:00      
            I think this one has been missed            01/01/70 00:00      
               Differential, symmetrical...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Brilliant!            01/01/70 00:00      
               What about current loop?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Concept            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Injecting signal into gnd            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Insufficient common mode rejection.            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Go differential            01/01/70 00:00      
                        That's why...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           in other words            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Split ground            01/01/70 00:00      
                           So, how do you maintain a "clean" GND?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              There's no golden rule!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 back to the future            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    make you happy!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       write a c code in keil 2 operate e timer            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Err ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             so sorry...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          what is Keil 2?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Trying SMS style?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                naah, just early morning, fingers stiff            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 More thought            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Crazy            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Yes thank you            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Eh??            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Common mode noise of DC/DC-converters            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       why use isolated converters?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Exactly!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             air craft chassis            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Faraday cage ?            01/01/70 00:00      

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