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???
05/05/06 13:17
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#115659 - What I want to tell...
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Russell said:
Kai, in my example where a sensor may be connected to the engine, it is unwise to have other ground paths apart from the earth strap for the engine itself. The sensor itself floats electrically. In this instance, what do you you connect the shield to?

Think about the throttle pot. It's often sitting in a metal housing having contact to motor block. Here you can use a shielded cable and connect shield to chassis at both ends. Many other sensors are also sitting in flanges near the motor having electrical contact with it. ABS sensors are mounted near the chassis, etc. etc.

Of course the car must be prepared to connect the shield at both ends to chassis. Also, in older cars, which do not have much electronics this shielding isn't necessary, because there's nothing that can be interfered.

Russell said:
Our friends at compliance club do make mention of certain instances where earthing both ends of the cable is verboten.

Yes, of course, for saftey reasons, when one side is lifted to a dangerous potential, or if total isolation is needed for other reasons.

Russell said:
They also suggest one uses only one ground plane on the pcb rather than separating analog and digital planes.

Yes, but they don't forbid it for very high resolution converters. They say, that in most cases, where no high resolution converteres are used, the solid ground plane will lead to better results than when an unexperienced router tries to split the ground plane.

Russell said:
As for the reliability of automotive electronics - things have come a long way since the dodgy ignition coils in Trabants!

I thought we are discussing about cars here?

Some years ago, there was a phenomenon described in the press: Some modern cars like Opel Omega, Ford Focus and some others showed strange behaviour from time to time: From one moment to the other the whole electronics stoped working properly and the engine went off. This was often obeserved, when the car entered a tunnel! I have a friend who happened this.

Or a certain car had always the motor going off, when stopping at a certain traffic light.

Have a look at the "banana skins" of compliance-club for more examples!

It turned out, that these cars, which were brand-new cars, were susceptible against radiation of very short wavelengths, for instance cellphone radiation, but also other traffic control signal transmissions, e.g. to traffic lights.

You are right of course, connecting the shield at both ends of only one such cable makes no sense, because then an unsane ground loop can develop. But if you do it with all your cables, then you get soemthing like a ground mesh, where the effective ground loop areas are minimized and by this the ground noise.

Only what I want to tell here is, that it becomes more and more demanding to connect the shield to ground at both ends, just to get a satisfying shielding performance in a world more and more becoming contaminated by highest frequency radiation. Whether Mahmood must adopt this or not depends on his setup, from which we do not know anything concrete.

Kai

List of 50 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Ground noise question            01/01/70 00:00      
   Chassis ground            01/01/70 00:00      
      measure what?            01/01/70 00:00      
   Shielding            01/01/70 00:00      
   I think mutual ground will be better            01/01/70 00:00      
   Ground noise            01/01/70 00:00      
      I'm with you.            01/01/70 00:00      
         the situation is like this            01/01/70 00:00      
            Try this            01/01/70 00:00      
               Disconnecting of battery while welding            01/01/70 00:00      
      Cures...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Shielding            01/01/70 00:00      
            Old tradition            01/01/70 00:00      
               New traditionalists            01/01/70 00:00      
                  What I want to tell...            01/01/70 00:00      
   Chassis connection makes sense            01/01/70 00:00      
      Not convineced!            01/01/70 00:00      
         Consultants ?            01/01/70 00:00      
            mmm            01/01/70 00:00      
         I don't know much about your application            01/01/70 00:00      
            I think this one has been missed            01/01/70 00:00      
               Differential, symmetrical...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Brilliant!            01/01/70 00:00      
               What about current loop?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Concept            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Injecting signal into gnd            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Insufficient common mode rejection.            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Go differential            01/01/70 00:00      
                        That's why...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           in other words            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Split ground            01/01/70 00:00      
                           So, how do you maintain a "clean" GND?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              There's no golden rule!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 back to the future            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    make you happy!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       write a c code in keil 2 operate e timer            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Err ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             so sorry...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          what is Keil 2?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Trying SMS style?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                naah, just early morning, fingers stiff            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 More thought            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Crazy            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Yes thank you            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Eh??            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Common mode noise of DC/DC-converters            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       why use isolated converters?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Exactly!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             air craft chassis            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Faraday cage ?            01/01/70 00:00      

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