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???
05/16/06 00:54
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#116277 - Perception vs reality
Responding to: ???'s previous message

Scott, you've got to get rid of your blindfold to your problem. Slapping bandaids on it is not going to create a good outcome. As I've mentioned before, running you limit switch wires with the motor wires is bad - this is the root cause. Doing this is going to give you lots of spikes when the motor starts/stops - you can measure this so you know exactly what you have to guard against - its not like you're trying to protect against some unknown transient that might occur randomly. I would suggest you get a storage 'scope and make some measurements, this will allow you to ENGINEER a solution. Once you have a picture of the spike, you'll probably find that it has risetimes in the 10's of microsecond range. A RC filter knocks the top off these spikes - again you can measure this. Your assertion that MOVs are slow comes up frequently - have you looked at the datasheet for these items? You'll find they respond in the low nS range - so speed is really not an issue. Some comparisons between tvs diodes and MOVs:

MOVs:
high capacitance - good for low frequency circuits, bad for high frequency circuits.

good overload capability - movs can take a good kick, however they tend to explode if you're too nasty to them.

wide voltage tolerance - they're good for gross overloads.


TVS diodes (tranzorbs(c)):

low capacitance. good for data comms/higher frequency circuits.

average overload capability. give them a good overload and they'll go short circuit.

reasonably tight voltage tolerance.

So , for protecting a HC TTL input, one would most likely use a TVS diode.


So, do some measurements to quantify the problem, then fiddle around with some R & C and see the effects. I'm sure you'll be able to come up with a robust solution that will eliminate the requirement of replacing ics and you'll be able to sleep at night knowing that your circuit will survive.


I have a similar problem in my car - there are a couple of idler wheels that have sealed bearings in them. These are mounted to the engine block. The problem is that the engine block puts its heat into the sealed bearings and the bearings only last a couple of years instead of lasting near indefinitely. The fix is to replace the bearings regularly - its not a difficult job but annoying. Had the designers mounted the idlers on a separate bracket to isolate them from the heat, then there would be no problem.

List of 66 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
High Tolerant Input Pins tvs, otpto,            01/01/70 00:00      
   Use a 'srial chip            01/01/70 00:00      
      But..            01/01/70 00:00      
         what's the problem?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Re: Serial Chip            01/01/70 00:00      
         better or not            01/01/70 00:00      
   Suggestion            01/01/70 00:00      
   Input            01/01/70 00:00      
      Why damaged?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Re: Why Damaged.            01/01/70 00:00      
            Another suggestion...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Yes, but...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Schottky clamps ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Diode clamps            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Tranzorb            01/01/70 00:00      
      Try this...            01/01/70 00:00      
   ST overvoltage protection            01/01/70 00:00      
      A bad situation            01/01/70 00:00      
         Russell            01/01/70 00:00      
            My suggestion?            01/01/70 00:00      
   Look for PLC discrete input circuits            01/01/70 00:00      
      partially right            01/01/70 00:00      
         Even a PLC wouldn't like this circuit            01/01/70 00:00      
            OK, It's a switch - question to Scott            01/01/70 00:00      
               Speed of the input            01/01/70 00:00      
                  at lower detection rates ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     What I recommended...            01/01/70 00:00      
   Steroids Desing            01/01/70 00:00      
      Analyse the circuit            01/01/70 00:00      
         to fully isolate            01/01/70 00:00      
            how about answering            01/01/70 00:00      
               That's obvious isn't it?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  it's not that obvious            01/01/70 00:00      
                     It's just ignorance            01/01/70 00:00      
                        opto couplers            01/01/70 00:00      
                           true enough!            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Not so strange            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Not strange, perhaps, but WRONG!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     It's just ignorance            01/01/70 00:00      
                     maybe you answered this one yourself            01/01/70 00:00      
                        still waiting            01/01/70 00:00      
                           No, though that might help            01/01/70 00:00      
   is this a newfangled idea            01/01/70 00:00      
      Downunder circuitry            01/01/70 00:00      
   Why I use the opto            01/01/70 00:00      
      Perception vs reality            01/01/70 00:00      
      +5V supply, is it isolated?            01/01/70 00:00      
         already asked and asked again            01/01/70 00:00      
            Yes, last try before I leave the thread!            01/01/70 00:00      
               The +5V is Isolated.            01/01/70 00:00      
                  incomplete answer            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Yes, what about the grounds?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Scott, where are you?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           he left when we asked questions            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Still lost and confused            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 you do not need a scope to answer the qu            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 We cannot help you, if you do not...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    COM and E-GND            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       still not answered            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          just a minute ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             SO let me rephrase: how many ohms betwee            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Getting Older            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   if you want help, start with some answer            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Problem is much more complex            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   what do you mean by "dying"            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Scott, could you...            01/01/70 00:00      

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