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???
10/13/06 12:21
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#126398 - simulation versus real life
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Abhishek Bk said:
I want test if a certain design is logically sound or not.
For example if my design is behaving strangely say every X number of inputs, there is a big chance that there is something wrong with logic employed in the circuit. Or the program might be carrying a glitch. If there was a tool where I could if my design is logically correct or not, it would be great.


I am afraid this is the sort of things for which the (digital) simulators are not very well suited.
I'd say they are intended to prove the basic functionality, but not really for the extras.

This is the same with the '51 (and other mcu) simulators.

There is always a great deal of abstraction (simplification) in simulators and it's in layers.

For example, the '51 simulators usually work in instruction cycles (the top layer, let's call it layer 0), which hides the exact timing of what's going on on the ports, i.e. that the outputs are overwritten in say 5th clock cycle of the appropriate instuction cycle (layer 1). Of course, layer 1 simulator is more complex, hence slower, more expensive etc. Nevertheless, it takes time while the signal propagates from the port latches to the actual port, that would be layer 2 simulation, even more complex. If you are interested in what exactly happens under various loads on the pin, in terms of both delays and voltage levels and ramps, you are already in layer 3 (SPICE); but at this layer it is already virtually impossible to simulate a whole microprocessor/controller. Of course we can continue down there where Heisenberg's principle prevents us to be more precise, but in commonday electronics, we usually are satisfied by what SPICE gives us.

So, the best thing what you can do is, you first make some digital simulation, and try to spot the possibly problematic spots (around edges etc.) - using your brain, sorry, that's the best thing we have. You can then possibly simulate some small portion of the circuit e.g. in SPICE inputting various stimuli, and having a look at it in more detail.

JW


List of 47 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Circuit Testing Software.....            01/01/70 00:00      
   Mixed simulator            01/01/70 00:00      
   ATE - not simulation?            01/01/70 00:00      
      ATE System Design            01/01/70 00:00      
      National Instruments            01/01/70 00:00      
      It is Software            01/01/70 00:00      
         simulation versus real life            01/01/70 00:00      
            What will you recommend?            01/01/70 00:00      
               i recall my first mentor Howard Taylor saying            01/01/70 00:00      
                  In that case.........            01/01/70 00:00      
               Prototype?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Yes, absolutely            01/01/70 00:00      
                  careful now!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     this is good, some comments especially on "testing            01/01/70 00:00      
                        i am not the only one            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Thanks Richard            01/01/70 00:00      
            Hoping I was not rude...........            01/01/70 00:00      
         there is such a tool            01/01/70 00:00      
         Some ideas            01/01/70 00:00      
            I dont use Keil            01/01/70 00:00      
               Needless to mention here            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Suggestion accepted            01/01/70 00:00      
         Need a full Proteus            01/01/70 00:00      
            So that justifies theft?            01/01/70 00:00      
            New category needed?            01/01/70 00:00      
               why not post "I want you to steal for me"            01/01/70 00:00      
                  I once attended a seminar ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   where can I get a free Cadillac?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Well......            01/01/70 00:00      
         that well gives muddy water            01/01/70 00:00      
            sometimes it takes time...            01/01/70 00:00      
            I have not worded myself right            01/01/70 00:00      
         take note ... nowhere do they mention "testing"            01/01/70 00:00      
            The trouble with simulation            01/01/70 00:00      
   Nice Effort            01/01/70 00:00      
      first of all ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         ATE software            01/01/70 00:00      
            meanwhile, back in the real world...            01/01/70 00:00      
               I know of no testing that can prove that            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Automation can help            01/01/70 00:00      
                     If NASA or some entity spend millions of dollars            01/01/70 00:00      
   programmer downloader            01/01/70 00:00      
      Off-topic?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Does he know the difference between try and test?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Something like this?            01/01/70 00:00      
   Boundary Scan?            01/01/70 00:00      
      A couple more companies; and articles            01/01/70 00:00      

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