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???
12/22/07 21:51
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#148621 - But my point is that you can know.
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Hi Steve,

But that's my point precisely, that you most certainly can know. 100 heads up pennies are not random, regardless of how they were produced. This is the crucial idea behind my definition. That a data set can be random or not, independently of the process that produced it.

You suggest that any result is random, if and only if it is produced by a random process (e.g. coin tossing). Therefore, if the process by which a result is produced is deterministic, the result can not be random.

But coin tossing is a purely deterministic process, governed by causality and the laws of physics. If we could know the initial conditions with sufficient precision, we could accurately predict the outcome of each and every toss. But since we can not predict the outcome, or control it, we call the process random when in fact it is not.

In the same way we call radioactive decay events random when they in point of fact are not. We use the word random when what we really mean is "unpredictable."

By my thesis, "randomness" is a well defined, quantifiable and analytical property of the finite data set, and the data set alone. It is completely independent of the process that produces the data set.

Analyzing various RNG algorithms I have shown not only how well they worked, but when they failed. The famous example is RANDU. I analyzed the output of RANDU and showed that it was fine up to a certain number of data points, and I showed at which point the output became non-random (a point that varies based on the number of dimensions in the space your generating data for.

Moreover, it can be shown that my analysis method, under appropriately judicious constraints, reduces to the famous Chi Squared calculation. However, unlike the Chi Squared calculation my method quantifies the randomness of the data set order. In other words, the sequence 1, 2, 3, 4, ..., n, will be shown quite non-random, whereas the exact same set of digits in a different order could be quite random. And the best part is that my method can quantify the degree of randomness for a whole host of different sequential possibilities, specifying which is the most random, which is the least, and all points in between.

Joe


List of 53 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
let's discuss random numbers            01/01/70 00:00      
   Radomness            01/01/70 00:00      
   chi squared....            01/01/70 00:00      
      51 related            01/01/70 00:00      
   how random is "Random"?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Quantifying randomness            01/01/70 00:00      
   Use one table in the memory            01/01/70 00:00      
   no 'mathematical solution can do that            01/01/70 00:00      
      I like your response            01/01/70 00:00      
   ADC and noise            01/01/70 00:00      
      reminds me of a funny story            01/01/70 00:00      
         Simple local shielding would have helped            01/01/70 00:00      
         Bad design!            01/01/70 00:00      
   The counter and button seems perfect to me            01/01/70 00:00      
   Not sure why people have problems with RNG            01/01/70 00:00      
      what I got out of all of this            01/01/70 00:00      
         Not quite?            01/01/70 00:00      
            And if there isn't a button?            01/01/70 00:00      
         no            01/01/70 00:00      
         More Not Quite            01/01/70 00:00      
            chi square isn't enough            01/01/70 00:00      
               Quantified randomness            01/01/70 00:00      
      By Definition            01/01/70 00:00      
      RNG schemes can be malicious!            01/01/70 00:00      
   pseudo IS pseudo, not random            01/01/70 00:00      
   A really good reference            01/01/70 00:00      
   Is radioactive decay truely random?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Correction            01/01/70 00:00      
      Is anything truly random?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Chaos is...            01/01/70 00:00      
            Chaos is not random.            01/01/70 00:00      
               I didnt tell that it is random            01/01/70 00:00      
   Visual randomness test            01/01/70 00:00      
      Las Vegas            01/01/70 00:00      
      Only for an indefinite number of pixels            01/01/70 00:00      
         How about a coin toss experiment, sort of.            01/01/70 00:00      
            Set of what ?            01/01/70 00:00      
               But my point is that you can know.            01/01/70 00:00      
                  This is wrong, sorry!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Are you even reading what I wrote?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        A random system is....            01/01/70 00:00      
                           AKA the LCE            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Random is            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Of course, I did            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Before we proceed, ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Randomness versus determinism            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Applying the uncertainty principle            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Thanks            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       You're welcome            01/01/70 00:00      
                  It is still Random            01/01/70 00:00      
            Depends            01/01/70 00:00      
   Normal distribution.            01/01/70 00:00      
   A random # generator circuit.            01/01/70 00:00      

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