| ??? 12/23/07 05:27 Modified: 12/23/07 05:49 Read: times |
#148626 - I didnt tell that it is random Responding to: ???'s previous message |
Kai said:
See the weather for example, everything follows the well known laws of physics, but you cannot predict the weather for a longer period. I told, that everything follows the very well known laws of physics. That is why mathematicans always mean the deterministic chaos, if they talk about chaos. Nevertheless there is no way to implement the Laplace Daemon, a machine, which once fed by all physical data of the whole world at one moment can predict the situation in the future. This is because you cannot determine all the physical data at the same time. Remember Heisenberg: The more precise you prepare the location of a particle the more imprecise the momentum becomes. This finally means that you cannot talk about a particle as a thing moving allong a path. You can only talk about the probability of finding the particle within a certain area. And now randomness comes into play. Telling that the particle is within a certain area is as uncertain as throwing a dice. Chaos finally is a consqequence of uncertainty relation expanded on macroscopic dimensions. Or another example: Put a few billard balls in a row, as exactly as you can, and push the first against the second, again as exactly as you can, then you cannot predict whether the fifth ball will hit the sixth. The momentum of the fifth ball is unpredictable, it is random, like throwing a dice. Nevertheless this arrangement follows all the well known laws of physics, like the conservation law of momentum etc. Joseph said:
In point of fact, chaos is, by definition, not random. Choas involves things which are wholly deterministic, as in the case of the hypothetical butterfly effect. Every consequence is caused by something. I see, you take the randomness definiton by Aristoteles. Exactly, everything is deterministic. Nevertheless, the point is the following: If you take two absolute identical weather situations at the beginning, where all parameters are absolutely identical, you will never get exactly the same weather situation at a later date! If so, you could design the Laplace Daemon, which is impossible due to the uncertainty principle. The randomness introduced by the uncertainty principle, allthough everything obeys the physical laws, means is deterministic, is why I stated, that chaos is a mixture of randomness and determinism. Kai |



