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???
09/22/05 07:36
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#101346 - Real Programmers don't use Pascal
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Kai Klaas said:
Professionals don't use diode-resistor-logic

Yes. That's why Professionals use a two-transistor double-inverter.
In fact, if you take a normal Schottky, at 50uA (which is the input low current of 2051) the voltage drop will be barely more than 0.2V (I don't have a collection of datasheets on these, just a quick glance to some BAT5x having guaranteed max. 240mV at 100uA) which gives you a - hopefully comfortable - 0.3V noise margin anyway here... But who knows, maybe this is not enough, as ground bounces might be really significant in this state-of-the-art circuit, capable of switching at around 1MHz rate...
Kai, tell me, how much do you think is the worst case LSTTL noise margin... And also note, that even the coolest professionals DO use diode-resistor logic even if they are not aware of doing so (look at the TTL-LS gates' input stages).

But of course, for rocket science the two-transistor solution is better.

Sorry for being a little bit emotional but as I said I don't think THIS is a matter which needs more attention and hair-picking.

Jan Waclawek


PS. Kai, you might be confused by using diode-resistor networks with significant current flow (in oder of 10mA) e.g. loaded by (multiple inputs of) conventional TTL, where the voltage drop even on Schottky diode can be as high as 0.5V - that just eats up the noise margin you could have. But this is CMOS...

List of 46 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
AT89c2051 port pin remains latched            01/01/70 00:00      
   1-to-0 transition current            01/01/70 00:00      
   OC comparator            01/01/70 00:00      
      a diode in series will do...            01/01/70 00:00      
      LM336-5            01/01/70 00:00      
         Price!! and speed?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Hmmmmmm...............            01/01/70 00:00      
               write PID sotfware for mcs51 micro.            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Start it as a new thread            01/01/70 00:00      
      Using LM339 only            01/01/70 00:00      
         LM339!            01/01/70 00:00      
            Pull up to 339            01/01/70 00:00      
               Why?            01/01/70 00:00      
               here are the two schemes            01/01/70 00:00      
                  not 12V, but 5.7            01/01/70 00:00      
                     and            01/01/70 00:00      
                        ???            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Question            01/01/70 00:00      
                              LM339            01/01/70 00:00      
                              open Collector            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 OOPS.            01/01/70 00:00      
                  12V swing            01/01/70 00:00      
                     there were three pictures...........            01/01/70 00:00      
                        yep...            01/01/70 00:00      
   Use P1.0 or P1.1            01/01/70 00:00      
      P1.0 and p1.1 are used            01/01/70 00:00      
   yep!! that is solved            01/01/70 00:00      
      Nothing is solved...            01/01/70 00:00      
         why so complicated?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Vil for 89c2051            01/01/70 00:00      
               then use a Schottkey            01/01/70 00:00      
                  LM339            01/01/70 00:00      
                     It probably will in the lab, the            01/01/70 00:00      
                        noise immunity?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           it most certainly does            01/01/70 00:00      
            Low-voltage noise margin            01/01/70 00:00      
               Real Programmers don't use Pascal            01/01/70 00:00      
                  It's so easy to state your opinion and t            01/01/70 00:00      
                     no more words            01/01/70 00:00      
                  It's amateurish to reduce noise margins            01/01/70 00:00      
                     hair-picking            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Fan-out specification            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Circuits that work on.....            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Rise times at 3MHz            01/01/70 00:00      
                        a small correction            01/01/70 00:00      
   I second the motion            01/01/70 00:00      

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