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???
09/26/05 20:22
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#101573 - Rise times at 3MHz
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Someone wrote me, that I'm wrong when demanding on high noise margins, because the micro AT89C2051 couldn't be fast enough to generate relevant ground bounce (ground noise). I was told, that rise and fall times aren't less than 20-30nsec with this type of micro (12-clocker with 24MHz maximum clock frequency).

Well, I don't have an AT89C2051 running at low clock speed, but an AT89S52, which is of the same type, and this one is much much faster!
The following plot shows the signal at P2.0, loaded by 10pF probe capacitance (10:1), while the micro is running at only 3MHz:




This plot was produced by a 50MHz digital storage scope at a sampling rate of 1Gs/sec and shows a rise time of 8.4nsec.
Keeping in mind, that intrinsic rise time of the scope is about 1/50MHz/pi = 6.4nsec, and that rise times are added geometrically, AT89S52 shows a rise time of about SQRT(8.4nsec^2 - 6.4nsec^2) = 5.4nsec!
Although being a rough approximation, it can clearly be seen that a modern '89C52` derivative can indeed show fast rise and fall times, which indeed can generate lots of nasty ground noise, even if the micro is clocked at only 3MHz!

Kai

List of 46 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
AT89c2051 port pin remains latched            01/01/70 00:00      
   1-to-0 transition current            01/01/70 00:00      
   OC comparator            01/01/70 00:00      
      a diode in series will do...            01/01/70 00:00      
      LM336-5            01/01/70 00:00      
         Price!! and speed?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Hmmmmmm...............            01/01/70 00:00      
               write PID sotfware for mcs51 micro.            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Start it as a new thread            01/01/70 00:00      
      Using LM339 only            01/01/70 00:00      
         LM339!            01/01/70 00:00      
            Pull up to 339            01/01/70 00:00      
               Why?            01/01/70 00:00      
               here are the two schemes            01/01/70 00:00      
                  not 12V, but 5.7            01/01/70 00:00      
                     and            01/01/70 00:00      
                        ???            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Question            01/01/70 00:00      
                              LM339            01/01/70 00:00      
                              open Collector            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 OOPS.            01/01/70 00:00      
                  12V swing            01/01/70 00:00      
                     there were three pictures...........            01/01/70 00:00      
                        yep...            01/01/70 00:00      
   Use P1.0 or P1.1            01/01/70 00:00      
      P1.0 and p1.1 are used            01/01/70 00:00      
   yep!! that is solved            01/01/70 00:00      
      Nothing is solved...            01/01/70 00:00      
         why so complicated?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Vil for 89c2051            01/01/70 00:00      
               then use a Schottkey            01/01/70 00:00      
                  LM339            01/01/70 00:00      
                     It probably will in the lab, the            01/01/70 00:00      
                        noise immunity?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           it most certainly does            01/01/70 00:00      
            Low-voltage noise margin            01/01/70 00:00      
               Real Programmers don't use Pascal            01/01/70 00:00      
                  It's so easy to state your opinion and t            01/01/70 00:00      
                     no more words            01/01/70 00:00      
                  It's amateurish to reduce noise margins            01/01/70 00:00      
                     hair-picking            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Fan-out specification            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Circuits that work on.....            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Rise times at 3MHz            01/01/70 00:00      
                        a small correction            01/01/70 00:00      
   I second the motion            01/01/70 00:00      

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