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???
11/15/05 14:46
Modified:
  11/15/05 14:48

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#103745 - You will loose all the noise margin!
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Chris said:
This leads me to think that maybe I don't ever need to drive the line into the mark state, but I could just disable the line driver and let the fail-safe biasing take control.

Additionally to what Kalpak mentioned you should also take this into consideration:

The fail safe feature of modern RS485 recievers is only good for giving them a chance of detecting, that the cable is disconnected or eventually, with some luck, that the master is powered-off. To do this, the reciever input is made to be a bit asymmetric, so that the absence of signal during above situations will cause a stable, non-changing output signal. And if the output of RS485 reciever isn't toggling any more, then a failure must have occured. This is the idea of fail safe feature.

But, take care, this imbalance of reciever isn't big enough to always guarantee the non-toggling of output, if, for instance, there's some relevant noise on the line. This is due to the fact, that the imbalance of reciever input must be much smaller then the regular signal amplitude, because otherwise the RS485 driver could never make the reciever output to change its state!

So, when using the driver enable input to transmit data over the RS485 line you would loose all the noise margin the RS485 loop is designed for!!

Kai

List of 34 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
RS485 Question            01/01/70 00:00      
   drive capacity            01/01/70 00:00      
      3 resistor termination            01/01/70 00:00      
         Only if you have power to burn            01/01/70 00:00      
            15 milliwatts. A lot of power?            01/01/70 00:00      
               Depends on your application            01/01/70 00:00      
                  how are you going to terminate at that            01/01/70 00:00      
                  RS485 loops are hungry...            01/01/70 00:00      
      You will loose all the noise margin!            01/01/70 00:00      
         not if you use 3 resistor termination            01/01/70 00:00      
            Better, but...            01/01/70 00:00      
               works for me, what do you have that is b            01/01/70 00:00      
                  No disagree...look what weird is planned            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Kai, I did not think you did            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Clarification            01/01/70 00:00      
                           3 resistors or not            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Then is all fail-safe bad?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Can you see the difference?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Kai, you keep ignoring the fact that RS4            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       I ignore nothing            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          It's the best we have and it works when            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Yes, but it can fail from time to time            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                I have handled that with isolated RS485            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   We do already            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      485-422            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         I challenge you to find a RS422 driver            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            In the past.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 All fail safe is good and 0.25V is plent            01/01/70 00:00      
                           That is not RS485, that is J1708            01/01/70 00:00      
                              trick to get around pseudo non random            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 This won't really help.            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Helpful            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 I am doing that using the Dallas DS2401            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Yes that is what I am planning            01/01/70 00:00      

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