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???
10/18/06 13:55
Modified:
  10/18/06 13:56

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#126651 - very true, but it doesn\'t apply
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Steve,

SATA works very well, and is the natural descendant of the parallel version that was popular up to a few years ago.

However, if someone comes to you with the old box, containing an 8" Winchester drive, which is what I described, it doesn't have the SATA interface. You're then forced to work out a way of transferring data over the available interface. This means, you have to build a "bridge."

Even if the serialized interface operates at 10 GHz, there's latency that doesn't help you. If you can avoid it, it's easier to manage the other timing constraints. The sort of "box" I described uses a parallel interface. It's close to what's used on a number of others, but not exactly. The particular type of device I had in mind uses "SASI" (Shugart Associates System Interface," which is a precursor of SCSI. It won't work on a SCSI interface, and it certainly won't work on ATA or SATA. People have data on these old boxes, and, when their PDP-11 breaks down and is finally hauled off, they have to have a way to retrieve the data. I've had others that worked similarly, but also weren't "exactly" the popular interface that they resembled. Medical equipment is still in use, for example, that uses 8" floppy disk drives. Now, these are going away at a fast pace, but I've designed and built interfaces between these boxes and PC's for the purpose of transferring the records stored in that way to common media. 8" floppy disk was once the "common medium."

What Jan just pointed out, and, essentially, what I've been saying for years, is that, "Where you sit determines what you see." I've seldom accused Erik of being totally wrong, at least up to the point of nomenclature with respect to 805x architecture. However, he necessarily sees things with different eyes than I do. He designs and builds boards that address his requirement sets, while I most frequently adapt COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) boards to my ultra-low volume requirements. I've done what he does, but for the past few years have focused on these low-volume, highly specialized tasks. Microcontrollers are VERY well suited for them, as one generally can implement the "specialized" hardware in the prototype area on such a board, and handle the bulk of the task in firmware.

What I've been trying to point out to everyone is that, while a potential solution to any problem may exist, it may not be readily implementable.

If I have a task of producing one or one plus a spare, of a given interface, typically a bridge, it's not realistic for me to use a specialized microcontroller unless it very directly addresses my need. Unless a particular device physically fits my applicaiton circuit, which SMT parts seldom do, it's not worth my time to consider it. There are cases where there's sufficient need to warrant a new PCB for a given application. Most often, though, I use a board with an MCU and an adequate prototyping area to accomodate the specialized hardware I need. Sometimes, rather than adding programmable logic to the MCU card, I use a programmable logic board with sufficient prototyping area to permit adding the MCU. I like doing this sort of thing, and I like addressing these challenges in this way.

If I were building hundreds per day of each of my designs, which I've certainly done often enough, my approach would be different. I suspect, however, that my perspective aligns more often with the folks who come to 8052.COM with their questions than does that of the guy who's ordering his components in 10K/week quantity. Some of what's been discussed here has been intended for large volume. However, what works for me will work in the large volume environment as well. It just works better with considerations closer to what Erik proposes when you're working at high volume.

RE

List of 174 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
How to extend the ports of 8051?            01/01/70 00:00      
   I2C, SPI, 1-Wire, CPLD            01/01/70 00:00      
      Why "avoid 8259"?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Why "avoid 8259"?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Hi            01/01/70 00:00      
         Hi            01/01/70 00:00      
      Examples            01/01/70 00:00      
   Choose an 8051 w. sufficient IO in the 1st place!            01/01/70 00:00      
      all 8051\'s have the same amount of I/O            01/01/70 00:00      
         list please            01/01/70 00:00      
            typo ... sorry ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         OK then, "derivative"            01/01/70 00:00      
         huh?            01/01/70 00:00      
            I think he means...            01/01/70 00:00      
               you're right, and that's the point, actually            01/01/70 00:00      
                  cause and effect            01/01/70 00:00      
   Clarification please            01/01/70 00:00      
      Clarification            01/01/70 00:00      
         Hi            01/01/70 00:00      
            Specifics ?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Hi            01/01/70 00:00      
   8255            01/01/70 00:00      
      Avoid 8255!            01/01/70 00:00      
         8255 Is Available in India            01/01/70 00:00      
            I learned the 8085 and 8255 in college            01/01/70 00:00      
               more number blindness?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Yes            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Actually, it IS possible ... but you\'re right            01/01/70 00:00      
                        why?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        who said useless?            01/01/70 00:00      
            so the blind should lead the deaf?            01/01/70 00:00      
               somebody's got to do it!            01/01/70 00:00      
         What do you mean by "cumbersome?"            01/01/70 00:00      
      which antique store do you shop at?            01/01/70 00:00      
   FAQ            01/01/70 00:00      
      now THAT would be helpful to many!            01/01/70 00:00      
         nobody said so            01/01/70 00:00      
            too slow?            01/01/70 00:00      
               if you want a FAQ ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Input or Output            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Well ... the Motorola parts did that ... bitwise            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Port C            01/01/70 00:00      
   Hi Everyboody!            01/01/70 00:00      
   Port I/O of 8051            01/01/70 00:00      
      Serial and parallel I/O            01/01/70 00:00      
         As many as two?!            01/01/70 00:00      
            port expansion            01/01/70 00:00      
               Oops - you've been in that museum again!            01/01/70 00:00      
                  that I know but            01/01/70 00:00      
                     sure            01/01/70 00:00      
                        i have not and I can't            01/01/70 00:00      
                           sorry...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     WSI; Waferscale; ST; PSM; PSD            01/01/70 00:00      
               wotizit?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  wired or line            01/01/70 00:00      
                     I'd not call it a "pin extension"...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        I would            01/01/70 00:00      
      Requirements            01/01/70 00:00      
      FAQ            01/01/70 00:00      
         a good start, but woefully incomplete            01/01/70 00:00      
            Triscend - now Zylogic            01/01/70 00:00      
            "woefully incomplete", eh?            01/01/70 00:00      
               response            01/01/70 00:00      
                  there are some \"gotchas\"            01/01/70 00:00      
                     I used them before they became flash parts            01/01/70 00:00      
                        So, where's the link to the ST software?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           let a WSI user find that out            01/01/70 00:00      
                              There are no more WSI users ... there's no WSI            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 WSI usres-PSD usres OK            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Richard... What P/N you looking at?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              I just skimmed over the four most prominent ones            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Is this it?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     PSD/uPSD            01/01/70 00:00      
   A couple of Articles on embedded I/O            01/01/70 00:00      
      broken libks            01/01/70 00:00      
         fixed            01/01/70 00:00      
      informative article(s) but ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         CPLDs and FPGAs            01/01/70 00:00      
            differences            01/01/70 00:00      
               that's not really the issue...            01/01/70 00:00      
            They\'re available at no cost            01/01/70 00:00      
               the invasion of ther windows "programmers"            01/01/70 00:00      
            re: CPLDs and FPGAs            01/01/70 00:00      
               Andy PLEASE            01/01/70 00:00      
            I only promote stuff            01/01/70 00:00      
         FPGA/CPLD drawbacks            01/01/70 00:00      
            please make complete statements            01/01/70 00:00      
               @Erik: please read complete:            01/01/70 00:00      
                  giving examples does not exclude            01/01/70 00:00      
            well, that's a big maybe ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               an example            01/01/70 00:00      
                  voltage is not my choice            01/01/70 00:00      
                     where is the beef?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        it depends            01/01/70 00:00      
                           costs less, too.            01/01/70 00:00      
   consider this ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      but why skin a cat that is rotted? the fur will no            01/01/70 00:00      
         You keep saying that, but WHY?            01/01/70 00:00      
            NO WAY            01/01/70 00:00      
               I'm not from Missouri, but "SHOW ME"            01/01/70 00:00      
                  you have now visited Missouri            01/01/70 00:00      
                     waitaminute Erik...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        and my argument is            01/01/70 00:00      
                           your argument is fallacious            01/01/70 00:00      
                              once more mixing I/O mapped and MMIO            01/01/70 00:00      
                              OFF TOPIC but...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 it\'s the disparity between rural and urban areas            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    I do not, BUT            01/01/70 00:00      
                           pins, lost&found            01/01/70 00:00      
                              a rephrase, a question and a subject issue            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 technically            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    mixing once more            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 You're being either crazy or stupid, Erik            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    I think the crazy one is you, Richard            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       I'm a seasoned man ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Same back at ya            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Now we're into semantics            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Now you are completely off the rocker. Who, more            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Wake up!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      that is a BLATANT LIE            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Good grief, Erik! It's not personal ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            YES, YES and YES. I even had to code it in assemb            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         you could state that explicitly....            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             I've tried to be diplomatic            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                I'll try it, too            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   the IIC as an alternative            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      As an alternative, but only sometimes            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         two viewpoints            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         SATA            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            I\'d like to meet...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               My point            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               Parallel works off-board as well            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            very true, but it doesn\'t apply            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         try THAT with the 8255            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Erik, it might surprise you to learn ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               WHAT            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Erik, in response to WHAT            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               that implies serial, in which case the 8255            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  I said is was parallel-interfaced ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     Please find the word 'parallel', I may be going bl            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        You're right, I left it out ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           The title of nthe thread is "How to extend the por            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              Yes, it's HOW TO and not HOW NOT TO ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 attaching an old ratteling caboose to a high speed            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         not that slow - especially compared to the 8255            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Erik, look at the datasheet ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               how do you propose to \"get it in\" at that speed            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Yes, this needs clarification            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     no, you don't            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        Erik, Once again, you've brought too much to            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           nope, there are plenty of boards with (sorry, I kn            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              Well, show me ... it\'s proven untrue so far.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 I am really curious what you are making where a            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                    Been there, done that ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                       now you lose me            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                          I don\'t like \'em.            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Jan ... DIGIKEY's not always the cheapest            01/01/70 00:00      
                           of course, if you can sell the sh eh stuff            01/01/70 00:00      
                     the datasheet says ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        are you mixing cement in a futile attempt to cast            01/01/70 00:00      
                           go back to school, Erik!            01/01/70 00:00      
                           go back to school, Erik!            01/01/70 00:00      
                              I say, you say            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Erik, go back and read the whole thing            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    had Peter IlyitchTscaikowsky lived ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       one more... :-)            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          hve you see any post stating that?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             yes. Richard's... :-)            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                and that was because ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   Why is this so endlessly fascinating?            01/01/70 00:00      
      to Jez            01/01/70 00:00      
         i dunno            01/01/70 00:00      
   "Extending Input/output"            01/01/70 00:00      
      "Extending Input/output"            01/01/70 00:00      

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