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???
04/18/08 05:09
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#153651 - 25-30 years ago it meant something else
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Jerson Fernandes said:
Richard

This is specifically responding to your questions. I will try to untangle the confusion that you perceive.

1) Mr Haribabu lives in Chennai (South India) about 1000 miles south of Bombay.

2) He purchased the ICs from a shop in Bombay (West India). You could think it akin to buying something from a Radio Shack or similar store. There are hundreds of retail shops like this concentrated in Grant Road, Bombay.

3) As Mr Haribabu stated, the parts RE2 'may be' screen printed spurious material which are sold in the market. A similar thing is the availability of the AT89C51 / AT89C52 devices which are obsolete(see the news items on 8052.com masthead) These are still available in our market at around 1USD ea.

Isn't such counterfeiting as you suggest happens illegal? Hasn't the buyer got some recourse, at least by going to the authorities (not that it will get him his money back)?

I'm a little confused about what you say about the "obsolete" parts. Dealers like DigiKey and Mouser often have these in stock for some time, as do mainstream distributors such as Future Electronics or even Avnet and Arrow. These often appear on their websites and can be ordered. As they become scarce, they become costly, however.

4) My take on the $150 that Hari paid is that he's been ripped off. (not news to people here-the standard line is check goods before you leave the store, 'Goods once sold will not be taken back' typical tagline on every cash memo. The shopkeeper is always right!!)

5) Digikey / Mouser is fine. Even they charge much more than what we get in this grey market. So, the first choice is this grey market. The shipping cost is a damper. Typical shipping charges are $50 for a small package. So, if you order parts worth $6*5=$30, you pay 30+50+ another $50 towards customs duties.

That's why I asked. It seems he could still have saved $20 and been assured of getting "real" parts without the risk of ending up with counterfeits.

Do you believe that Mouser and DigiKey charge you more than they charge us here in the U.S? I do, however, believe that the postage from U.S. to India is burdensome.

Jerson


Thank you, Jerson, for the detailed explanation.

The grey-market with which I became familiar in the late '70's and early '80's was one in which some "surplus" dealers (meaning, in general, purchasers and resellers of "distress" merchandise which was over-purchased, or inventory of enterprises going out of business. Unfortunately, there was a small but well-known market for mismarked parts, usually commercial-grade parts relabeled (illegally) as military or space-qualified parts. On rare occasions these were actually dispatched into the military procurement stream, and, when discovered, caused quite a stir, and sending some individuals to prison.

More commonly, these same dealers would acquire rejected parts, a practice for which Radio Shack was famous, and resell them as "good" parts.

Back in '79 one of my clients bought about 1000 diodes, of which not a one was good, from Radio Shack, which was not know to sell parts in quantity, but which did so. The same client, in the same order, had bought 2000 voltage regulators from them and found, on incoming inspection, that not a one of them regulated within the 5% margin of specified voltage that was specified in the datasheet. Fortunately, they all regulated within 1% of one another, so we were able to "fix" the problem, as the regulators were in short supply at the time.

I was aware that there was a widespread trend in the current Asian market toward counterfeiting relatively scarce parts, but I wasn't aware that common parts costing just a few dollars were subject to this practice. One fellow came to me some years back to have me build him a machine with which he could verify that a given IC was, in fact, what it said on the package, as his business was based on replacement parts for '70's-, '80's-, and early '90's-vintage equipment.

Surely there's a way to deal with this in a way that will make it easier for small developers in India to obtain quality parts without enduring such risks.

Perhaps there's a business opportunity there. It would, of course, involve some capital investment. However, if difficult-to-find parts were ordered in modest quantity, though not just a handful, perhaps by a multiplicity of small developers, some savings could be had, couldn't they? After all a package with 6 parts probably costs about as much as one with 60, since they're usually the same size and don't weigh much more.

RE



List of 60 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Caution notice to Indian Buyers of Atmel Devices            01/01/70 00:00      
   Problem with Atmel            01/01/70 00:00      
      You're better off on eBay!            01/01/70 00:00      
      I don't think that's the problem?            01/01/70 00:00      
         You are right , with online I mean provisions            01/01/70 00:00      
            No problems here...            01/01/70 00:00      
               No problems here...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Oh, I see.            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Farnell /Rs components are OK for            01/01/70 00:00      
                        caution notice --            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Happy to see you clarify            01/01/70 00:00      
                           no info from Vimal            01/01/70 00:00      
   And their website is infected too!            01/01/70 00:00      
      trojan            01/01/70 00:00      
         Maybe you were infected.            01/01/70 00:00      
            Let me see            01/01/70 00:00      
               Trojan Details            01/01/70 00:00      
                  protect yourself... don't buy crapware even if it is free            01/01/70 00:00      
                     And I say, I'm happy with it!            01/01/70 00:00      
                        M$IE, Atmel, or both? ;-)            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Atmel's micros            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Maybe, but it's a separate problem ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Image zoom with IE            01/01/70 00:00      
                        get FF3            01/01/70 00:00      
                           the latest is FF v2.0.0.13            01/01/70 00:00      
                              try google "firefox 3"            01/01/70 00:00      
                        I noticed it in FireFox but no in IE ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Yes            01/01/70 00:00      
   it seems to be quite a penalty            01/01/70 00:00      
      Two sides to this story...?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Not clear            01/01/70 00:00      
            It\'s an ATMEL problem ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               just imagine            01/01/70 00:00      
                  that's not universally true            01/01/70 00:00      
                  "delete" why? that can be fun for many beginers            01/01/70 00:00      
                     e.g.            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Oh I see            01/01/70 00:00      
      I don't use            01/01/70 00:00      
         Why not? It works VERY well!            01/01/70 00:00      
            Trust            01/01/70 00:00      
               I doubt I would like that ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Call me paranoid            01/01/70 00:00      
   Clarification            01/01/70 00:00      
      Clarification 2            01/01/70 00:00      
         Clarification            01/01/70 00:00      
            This still doesn\'t wash ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Ok, specifics            01/01/70 00:00      
                  It is up to you and your colleagues            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Let us Start it            01/01/70 00:00      
                        I'm not sure you'll get a lot of agreement            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Very relevant            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Yes, the times are a-changing, but it's up to you!            01/01/70 00:00      
      Why pay so much?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Grey Market Distribution            01/01/70 00:00      
         Let me try            01/01/70 00:00      
            25-30 years ago it meant something else            01/01/70 00:00      
               Grey            01/01/70 00:00      
               Yes counterfeiting is illegal but.....            01/01/70 00:00      
                  why not ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Postage from US to India            01/01/70 00:00      

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