Email: Password: Remember Me | Create Account (Free)

Back to Subject List

Old thread has been locked -- no new posts accepted in this thread
???
07/03/06 12:35
Read: times


 
Msg Score: +1
 +1 Informative
#119559 - to shield or not to shiels, that is the
Responding to: ???'s previous message
to shield or not to shiels, that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer from not shielding.

In an ideal case there is no need whatsoever to shield a balanced twisted pair. But which case is ideal?

now what makes the case less than ideal
1) common mode limitations: there is no way of predicting how a 485 transciever will behave if a noise spike exceed the common mode limit.
2) slight imbalances: we all (I guess) violate the balanced nature of the pair at connectors, PCB traces etc.. If you have, say, a 10% imbalnace, you will get in trouble if a noise spike is 10 times the noise margin of single ended.
3) component tolerances: there is a slight 'error' in the balanced nature of the transciever, not enought to matter on it's own, but it can break or bear if other imbalances exist.
4) the termination: two points, even if the termination impedance is close (it is never 'perfect') you get some ringing, not enought to matter on it's own, but it can break or bear if other imbalances exist. Also, the 3 resistor termination required if the transciever is not 'state safe' OR the internal transciever circuit to make it 'state safe' will again create a slight imbalance, not enought to matter on it's own, but it can break or bear if other imbalances exist.

Were I to communicate between two distant points in a non-industrial environment and an unshielded twisted pair was already in existence, I would use it rather than insisting on a new cable being pulled.
The reason I use shielded twisted wire is #1 above, even with isolated transcievers there is a common mode limit.

Erik

List of 38 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
rs485 connection with 8051            01/01/70 00:00      
   RS 485            01/01/70 00:00      
      I have recommended the above appnote for            01/01/70 00:00      
         Yes, but...            01/01/70 00:00      
            cable shield connection ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               is it P.G. Woodhouse?            01/01/70 00:00      
               Hard and soft grounding            01/01/70 00:00      
                  grounding differential signals            01/01/70 00:00      
                     for such Maxim has 'the cure'            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Also AD & Linear Tech            01/01/70 00:00      
                     PEC            01/01/70 00:00      
                        RS485 using 2 wires only            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Using two wires only            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Thanks Russell Bull            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Shielding            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    CAT5E - UTP and RS485            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Cat5E & RS485            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          to shield or not to shiels, that is the            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Thanks Erik            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             common mode voltage            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                comments to common            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Even without any tolerance            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      you are right - need anothe cuppa            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      I never tried...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         What threshold voltage do you use?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Transmitting signal ground and +5V            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Yes            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Thanks Russel, Erik and Kai            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             re 485 cabling            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Slew rate controlled drivers prefered            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   I agree but do not            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Of course, this is no excuse for fumblin            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   slew rate controlled - low speed ??            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      there is a graph in one of the 485 appno            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      250kbps?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                links to juicy B&B 485 stuff            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                re 485 cabling            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   you found a better link than the one I            01/01/70 00:00      

Back to Subject List