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06/15/08 16:04
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#155926 - Resistance in the supply rails
In order to avoid contaminating another thread,

http://www.8052.com/forum/read.phtml?id=155921

I'm starting this one.

At issue is the placement of small-value resitors in the supply connections for the purpose of localizing noise generated by the charge pump in MAX232 devices to the serial interface, rather than allowing it to permeate the remainder of the circuit.

I proposed the insertion of low-value resistors in the supply rails for the MAX232, with carefully designed bypass/filtering in the supply rails, between the noisy charge-pump-based MAX232 and the rest of the circuit, with half as much resistance in the Gnd path as in the Vcc path. While I would not recommend this for most circuits, I find it appropriate for the MAX232, and not necessarily for later versions of it, such as the MAX232A or MAX3232.

The basic theory is that, as the MAX232 imposes noise on the supply by periodically cauing current surges on Vcc and Gnd in order to charge its cap's. When this happens, the resistor voltage due to IR changes will be offset by current flow into and out of the cap's. My position is that this mitigates the impact on Vcc and GND outside the MAX232's circuit, as there is meaningful bypass inside and immediately outside that circuit, using high-frequency-response (low ESR, ESL, meaning, essentially, NOT electrolytic) capacitors on either side of the series resistors.

Because the receivers of the MAX232 operate against a deadband of +/- 3 volts to either side of Gnd and I submit that worst-case load changes on Vcc and Gnd will not have meaningful impact on incoming signals. Further, since the input thresholds for logic levels are pretty well separated, too, they, likewise, will be essentially unimpacted by the small voltage changes on Vcc and Gnd, particularly since those will be significantly mitigated by a properly designed notch filter on Vcc and Gnd. The impact the MAX232 has on the supply rails, after all, is primarily due to the operation of its charge pump, which relies on 1 uF cap's to develop the +/- 10 volts it claims to provide.

At issue is the impact of at < 50 ohm resistance would have on the ability of the MAX232 to detect signals on both input and output.

RE

List of 31 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Resistance in the supply rails            01/01/70 00:00      
   inductor instead of resistor            01/01/70 00:00      
      yes, and no and I think the theory is flawed            01/01/70 00:00      
         Spice?            01/01/70 00:00      
            That would probably help, but ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      That's what I said            01/01/70 00:00      
         Not in the gnd path!            01/01/70 00:00      
            Well ... this normally doesn't work so well, but            01/01/70 00:00      
   If this scheme is used it would also be well to...            01/01/70 00:00      
      This does increase the supply impedance            01/01/70 00:00      
         please clarify with a simple schematic            01/01/70 00:00      
            the bypass cap\'s always go between Vcc and Gnd            01/01/70 00:00      
               Which Vcc, Which gnd            01/01/70 00:00      
                  There's a cap on either side of the resistor(s)            01/01/70 00:00      
                     is it            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Not quite ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           don't use a resistor in the GND connection            01/01/70 00:00      
                              What >good reason< could this be??            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 What good reason could this be??            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Using a resistor in the GND connection...            01/01/70 00:00      
                              How would that come to pass?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Why should I insert a resistor in the GND line??            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Seldom andonly if it is of benefit            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       No disagree, but ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          The regulator can't pull the Vcc down            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             This has nothing to do with imbalance!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Kai, I don\'t disagree ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Again, do not add any impedance in the GND line            01/01/70 00:00      
   tantalum capacitor across the MAX232 power pins            01/01/70 00:00      
      It's a matter of careful choice            01/01/70 00:00      
      Yes they does            01/01/70 00:00      

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