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???
05/10/06 12:32
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#115930 - There is two ways to do things: by desig
Responding to: ???'s previous message
My apologies for leaving out information that I thought was common knowledge, especially amongst the so called 'gurus' who delight in making unhelpful criticisms.
There is two ways to do things: by design and by hope. That "gurus" (that all, I'm sure, have been exposed to the bullshit you refer to) offend you by not beliving in "design by hope" is just too bad.

You will find post after post that start "My 232 does not work with my new PC" ALL these posts end "do you use a MAX232 (equivelent)?" answer "no". When the crap circuit is replaced by a proper chip all start working again.

Even the piece of bullshit you quote states "however, the overall range that the RS232 signal may be transmitted/received may be dramatically reduced."
This is a very clear example of "design by hope". WHERE is the exact maximum length possible defined? HOW can you guarantee that a longer cable is never going to be used? HOW can you guarantee that a next generation PC will not require negative voltage? - oh, well you can alwatys hope that none of this will happen.

also (by mistake, I'm sure) your reference contains correct information: "RS232 data is bi-polar.... +3 TO +12 volts indicates an "ON or 0-state (SPACE) condition" while A -3 to -12 volts indicates an "OFF" 1-state (MARK) condition"

There is mo question that you MAY get by with the non-standard signals, but the issue is that there is no way that you can say that you WILL get by with it.

Erik

List of 68 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
hardware setup of AT89C51ED2            01/01/70 00:00      
   RTFM            01/01/70 00:00      
   board's setup            01/01/70 00:00      
   has been discussed            01/01/70 00:00      
   AT89C51ED2 in ISP            01/01/70 00:00      
      no 'unique' schematc needed            01/01/70 00:00      
      thanks joel            01/01/70 00:00      
    I sent for your email the schematic!            01/01/70 00:00      
   FLIP            01/01/70 00:00      
      sample code            01/01/70 00:00      
         program in assembly?            01/01/70 00:00      
            sample code in c            01/01/70 00:00      
   ISP without MAX232            01/01/70 00:00      
      that old gem again            01/01/70 00:00      
         A gem is always a gem            01/01/70 00:00      
            it does not help that you respond s..t a            01/01/70 00:00      
      Re: ISP without MAX232            01/01/70 00:00      
         To stop an urban legend ... seems imposs            01/01/70 00:00      
            just for the sake of argument ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               very clearly stated            01/01/70 00:00      
                  That's GREEN cheese!            01/01/70 00:00      
            from old time...            01/01/70 00:00      
               there you go            01/01/70 00:00      
               How about the 1488/1489?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  this all started with            01/01/70 00:00      
                     well, I read that, but ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        but            01/01/70 00:00      
                           the standard still deserves a look            01/01/70 00:00      
            reminds me of the burden cap argument.            01/01/70 00:00      
         RS232 without -V explained            01/01/70 00:00      
            There is two ways to do things: by desig            01/01/70 00:00      
            Do never do            01/01/70 00:00      
               Answer in shematic of your post            01/01/70 00:00      
            I wouldn't rely on that ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               true, if you have no noise margin worrie            01/01/70 00:00      
                  What??? You imply the 1489 won't work?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     what is a 1489? and what is the issue            01/01/70 00:00      
                        it's what we used before the Max-xxxx            01/01/70 00:00      
                           who said 'require'?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              I think you're dreaming.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 yes, I 'dream' noise immunity            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    and you're prepared to show ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       I can't            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Try this link            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             I hope the datasheet is wrong            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Nope, it isn't wrong ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Another gem? Well explained!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      so, now the crap is "justifued"            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   hy do you keep beating a desd horse            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      I'm not the one doing the beating            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         I never said that            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Hysteresis, ... sure ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Interesting ...            01/01/70 00:00      
          Just wait, next time it may very            01/01/70 00:00      
   you keep hammering 'needed'            01/01/70 00:00      
      No, in fact you haven't            01/01/70 00:00      
         standard            01/01/70 00:00      
            Of course I adhere to standards            01/01/70 00:00      
               I did not make the standard            01/01/70 00:00      
                  As long as you're arguing with me ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     I directly quoted you, so who started th            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Erik, you need some practice            01/01/70 00:00      
                           That should settle it, you get your chip            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Chill brothers            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Time for a rendezvous            01/01/70 00:00      
                           to the two above            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Where's the science?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 science            01/01/70 00:00      

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