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05/31/07 18:16
Modified:
  05/31/07 18:19

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#140125 - why are you so determined on using ONE method
Responding to: ???'s previous message
your luddite statement "debugger not useful" is now followed by
I meant JTAG debuggers like on Silabs 8051, Atmel AVR, NXP ARM and so on.
There is abolute no way to inspect something on the fly.
Whenever you want to see something, the CPU stops completely.


that one thing (inspect something on the fly) does not qualify that "debugger not useful". Your car can not brew beer, is it thus not useful?

I absolutotally LOVE the JTAG debuggers like on Silabs, can they "inspect something on the fly" yes, in a way they can and in a much less intrusive way that your "sending debug informtaion over the UART" can.

First of all an emulator is in most cases able to show you what you need to see, without "inserting code". I remeber the "insert code days" insert code, see something, insert code elsewhere learn a bit more, insert code elsewhere learn a bit more, insert code elsewhere learn a bit more, insert code elsewhere learn a bit more, .... what a cumbersome method.

Second if you do the "send the code if it is 47" a much less intrusive way is "store the code elsewhere if it is 47" and, after a while stop the emulator and watch "elsewhere".

Are there rare cases where inserting code is the only method possible?, of course, but stating that that makes other methods "not useful" is bullshit covered with horsefeathers.

The more tools you have in your toolchest, the more likely you will finish in a timely manner.

I just realize a thing about yout 'method' related to the original point re optimization: if you "insert code to inspect something on the fly" the optimizer, most likely will totally change the flow.

Erik

List of 80 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
What\'s more important optimisations or debugging?            01/01/70 00:00      
   as Ive said before,you have two versions            01/01/70 00:00      
      Fly what you debug; Debug what you fly            01/01/70 00:00      
         Yes and No            01/01/70 00:00      
            and no...            01/01/70 00:00      
               You can not see what is not there            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Yes, that's the challenge            01/01/70 00:00      
               incorrct            01/01/70 00:00      
                  read the whole post            01/01/70 00:00      
                     comments            01/01/70 00:00      
                        I said: Ideally            01/01/70 00:00      
                           That's exactly the problem!            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Correct - but maybe mis-stated            01/01/70 00:00      
                     still not the same            01/01/70 00:00      
                        it would require some modifications elsewhere            01/01/70 00:00      
                           the catch            01/01/70 00:00      
                              sure            01/01/70 00:00      
      Buggy compilers.            01/01/70 00:00      
         not the most common reason            01/01/70 00:00      
            Probability.            01/01/70 00:00      
   Avoid problems            01/01/70 00:00      
   debugger not useful            01/01/70 00:00      
      'debuggers' ....            01/01/70 00:00      
         Re: Bullshit            01/01/70 00:00      
            why are you so determined on using ONE method            01/01/70 00:00      
               my silabs experince            01/01/70 00:00      
                  you must have your 'experience' from a VERY early            01/01/70 00:00      
   Make it right, then make it fast            01/01/70 00:00      
   Optimization misapplied - editorial            01/01/70 00:00      
      what is the difference...            01/01/70 00:00      
         this is the difference            01/01/70 00:00      
            I see, thanks.            01/01/70 00:00      
               with compiler optimizing ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   profile            01/01/70 00:00      
      So he should be able to sort it to give us BOTH!            01/01/70 00:00      
         on further analysis            01/01/70 00:00      
            PIG?            01/01/70 00:00      
               I got used to that misspell ....            01/01/70 00:00      
                  OT: PIC assembly language            01/01/70 00:00      
                     errata            01/01/70 00:00      
                        which you often can not get by with            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Takes the sting out            01/01/70 00:00      
                        PIC assembler is fun!            01/01/70 00:00      
                           well it does make more clones of me            01/01/70 00:00      
                           matter of personal preference, I think            01/01/70 00:00      
                              HT 8051 C too            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Did you miss...            01/01/70 00:00      
         No hidden agenda            01/01/70 00:00      
            make it "Keil compatible"            01/01/70 00:00      
            "omniscient code generation"            01/01/70 00:00      
               OCG looks interesting            01/01/70 00:00      
               omniscient code generation            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Recursive Calls            01/01/70 00:00      
                     need recursive calls? use a chip that can take it            01/01/70 00:00      
                        RE: Recursive Calls            01/01/70 00:00      
                     RE: Recursive Calls            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Ryan, as I said above...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     optimization 1) and 2)            01/01/70 00:00      
                        procedural abstraction?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           debugging tools            01/01/70 00:00      
                              support for other tools and our own tool offering            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 tools etc.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    beta testers?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       advertisement?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Link is fine            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          silabs?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             chips            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Future direction            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   do not forget the 'economy ones'            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      "economy" ICE...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         SILabs does not belong            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            ICE cathegorisation (C) Erik            01/01/70 00:00      
                              my guess            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 the big shots...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           please elaborate            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Debugging challenges            01/01/70 00:00      
   It depends on what you want            01/01/70 00:00      
   Realy What is Important, is there any paradox            01/01/70 00:00      
   AVR or C51 ,PLease Choose ?!!            01/01/70 00:00      
   Embedded System or your noodle Code            01/01/70 00:00      

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