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Thread Closed: Became flame-war

???
07/30/08 20:09
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#157148 - MicroManagement ...
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Jay Davis said:
ok. Actually perhaps BASIC language would be best for future alterations since it is so much easier for us rusty engineers with no experience in this area.
Sampling can be very slow to once every half second really.
Buffering/filtering could be wise.
We presume that chip hsa 16 separate inputs so we ask would expect 16 channels and no need for mulitplexing.
The logic for the outputs (which need to be 0 or 5 volts ) correspond to a software program that compares the inputs and makes decisions based on same. IE Inintially one dispensation is a simple bubble sort , sort all 16 inputs from highest to lowest and then pick of n number of the highest and output them as 5 volts . All other outpus would be 0 (also all outputs start out as 0 initialized).
Later we expect to make it more fancy and create different decision making algorythm to achieve it. But having a simple buble sort at first at least gets us started and helps us get something that we can later modify and tailor to our more complex needs as they change over the next few years.
So Yes, they output logic needs to be configurable , thus using a easy language such as BASIC is nicer for us who are not able to devote massive time to being expert (relearning c or pascal etc).
See above , Actually in the case that all 16 inputs were 0 , the program should buble sort anyway (all 0 ) and then proceed with picking n top highest outputs ( in this case all 0) to turn on the coresponding vout1 , vout2, etc as +5 volts. Of course this is the trival case.
When at least one input is higher than zero then it proceeds as normal and turns on highes n vout's and all other vout's = 0.
In maximum capacity operation; 16 inputs will all be higher than 0, which will bubble sort from high to low and logic will turn on the highest n vouts and all others set to 0.
EXAMPLE: Presuming input vmax is 5 volts (we don't know this) we voltage divied inputs to be below 5 volts (all same diviions so we get prorated relative equality), with 5 non-zero inputs and 11 zero inputs (disconnected or malfunction);

vin1 = 4v,
vin2 =5,
vin3 = 3,
vin4 = 3.4,
vin5 0 4.6.
vin6 - 16 are all 0,

Logic bubble sorts them to
vin2,
vin5,
vin1,
vin4,
vin3
vin6-16

Then LOGIC sends signals to n (= 3 in this case for simple example) that top 3 vins corresponding to the same # vouts will be set to 5 volts . All others set to 0 volts as thus:
vout2 =5,
vout5 = 5,
vout1 = 5,
vout4 = 0,
vout3 = 0,
vout 6-16 = 0

We are requesting BASIC language and any other easy to use from normal pc languages assemblers etc. We presume there must be some kind of hardware connection (testboard) for inputing program and rewriting with cable connection to preferable usb or serial port?

Compensation: We are on very tight budget, so yes could in the future make a donation to some charity but that would be in future once we get over the hump. What say you? j.


That was probably a language mistake. Most probably, the OP wanted to write: maybe in c++?

Anyway, people can't guess how much time it will take unless there are a full specification.

How often should the analog inputs be sampled?
Should there be any filtering of the inputs to make sure that a short glitch doesn't result in a corresponding spike on the digital output pin?

How are the analog inputs connected? If more inputs than there are ADC channels, how are they multiplexed?

What is the logic for the individual outputs?

Does the logic need to be configurable, or is it fixed decisions?

Is every output controlled by decisions from a single input, or will multiple inputs be used to decide the state of an output?

Even if you request someone else to do the program, you must decide - beforehand - if some specific tools should be used, so that you can control what tools someone else must have if you want someone to make further changes later down the road.

Are your request for donation of time, or would you be ready to pay the volunteer or donate money to a charitable cause or something else?



Jay,

It looks as though you want to micromanage this project. That's OK if you know more about what's to be done than the people who do the work, but, it seems quite clear that you don't. Too much limitation won't help you, and it won't help anyone else, either.

If you're determined to make the job difficult and frustrating for whoever helps you, the insist on Basic, C++, ADA, FORTRAN, LISP, COBOL, ALGOL, or whatever tool you want used. If, however, you want the job done as quickly and at as little cost as possible, then allow the people doing the work to choose the tools he/she prefers.

If you want to be sure you get what you want, then you must specify what you want, ... EXACTLY ... so there's no doubt about what you want and when you want it. That means providing specifications ... EXACT specifications ... how much voltage, how much current, how fast a sample rate, how fast a rise/fall time on the signals, and anything else you have to have. Keep in mind, that if you omit something, or mis-specify it, your contractor will simply say, "O.K. ... bring money ... "

BTW, you should also precisely specify what you will pay for a piece of agreed-upon work, and when you will pay it, and what the deliverables are, not to mention what criteria the deliverables will meet in order to warrant payment.

All this is work, and you have to do your part in advance, else you'll be paying for something you didn't want for a long time.

If you specify it well and correctly, and then bring the problem here, it's likely someone will reply, "Gee ... I did that last year ... and here's how ..." and that may get the job done at little or no cost. However, if you enshroud your project in mystery, it will cost you tens of kilobucks in aspirin, MAALOX, prune juice, and perhaps even whiskey, if you're so inclined, not to mention much higher fees from those who may or may not help you.

Think first! Specify as precisely as possible, in great detail. Review the specification. What's necessary to make it work, and what's "nice but not necessary," and then revise the specification so there's absolutely nothing without which your project will fail. Be clear and unambiguous in your request for proposals.

If you lay the task out clearly and completely, you'll get help and will have little trouble. If you get into lots of "handwaving", you're headed for trouble.

Above all, allow those who are to help you the most freedom in how, and the least in what they're being asked to do, and insist on full and complete technical documentation, not just an occasional comment in the code.

That will save on aspirin.

RE



List of 73 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
ATMEL AT89C52 Help?            01/01/70 00:00      
   Info            01/01/70 00:00      
      you are ignoring \'the standard\' and the fast            01/01/70 00:00      
         Not ignoring            01/01/70 00:00      
            it does not, but            01/01/70 00:00      
      Anyone want to write simple program for chip for u            01/01/70 00:00      
         \"a few hours\"???            01/01/70 00:00      
         No as simple as you may think            01/01/70 00:00      
            reply            01/01/70 00:00      
               Let's start at the beginning            01/01/70 00:00      
   A Serial Flash chip would be easier            01/01/70 00:00      
   Specification?            01/01/70 00:00      
      what about a "community project"?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Has anyone offered complete C++ for 805x?            01/01/70 00:00      
            yes??            01/01/70 00:00      
               Subset            01/01/70 00:00      
            Would Object Oriented Techniques Be Of Advantage?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Reply specs.            01/01/70 00:00      
         More specifications (and less)            01/01/70 00:00      
            Additional specs. Can you do it?            01/01/70 00:00      
               16 temperature inputs, relay outputs.            01/01/70 00:00      
                  problem is in software            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Lets first choose a chip.            01/01/70 00:00      
                        how many are you going to make?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        It is not just a voltage            01/01/70 00:00      
                  We want to keep it simple            01/01/70 00:00      
         MicroManagement ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Narrowing it down            01/01/70 00:00      
            More specs again            01/01/70 00:00      
               ATMEL AT89C52            01/01/70 00:00      
                  More hw info needed            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Ok. thanks            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Don't assume. Don't "let's say". Go specific!            01/01/70 00:00      
                  dtraight from the horses mouth            01/01/70 00:00      
               Be Specific            01/01/70 00:00      
            shameless self-advertisement            01/01/70 00:00      
               Hi Jan, some user guide?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  documentation... is always a pain... ;-)            01/01/70 00:00      
                     sometimes "hobby projects" are better off            01/01/70 00:00      
                        what's that?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           a techwriter is            01/01/70 00:00      
                              oh I see            01/01/70 00:00      
                           The REAL issue with documentation            01/01/70 00:00      
                              ever done a hobby project, Richard? ;-)            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 not since the '60's ... well, maybe the '70's            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    well, IMHO, hobby projects are exactly the opposite...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       remember the reference to Ultramon51?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          the reward of hobbyist            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             the hobbyist does not need formal documents            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                hobbyist????            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             hobbyist - beginner            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                It's a tradeoff            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Target goals and check lists            01/01/70 00:00      
                              naah            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Smaller companies have to run fast            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    the sad thing is            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Progress            01/01/70 00:00      
                     program interpreted from i2c eeprom?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        possible, but why?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Waiting for first proposal for whole project?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Waiting for complete and precise requirements            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Lets keep on track.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    A joke?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Well said            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       FOR SHAME !!!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Taunting?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          You asked            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          There are AND gates that might work            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Posible            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Well ... depending on the relay ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Useful for others?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Off track? Not at all! Tell us what you want ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   shematic 1            01/01/70 00:00      

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