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Thread Closed: Became flame-war

???
08/01/08 15:10
Modified:
  08/01/08 15:28

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#157223 - hobbyist - beginner
Responding to: ???'s previous message
It involves thinking and planning. That's where most hobbyists fail.
....
I wouldn't call it a failure. In fact, most of the time, the hobbyists reward is the fun he had, and maybe skills he learned.


I do not know to which extent (I am sure some) the following applies to a hobbyist, but it most certainly fully apply to a beginner/student:

There is nothing more dangerous than starting off "the informal way". I know people that, even after many years, have not UNlearned "the informal way" and still do things like using numeric values instead of definitions in instructions, which in larger maintained projects is a true disaster.

I know, Jan, that doing things the right way is not half the fun of "throwing it together" but this I have seen is one of the most difficult things to UNlearn. After some time, I assume, a hobbyist becomes an "advanced hobbyist" and THEN "throwing it together" is a certain recipe for failure. The beginner/student will be even harder hit when entering the real world.

for that reason I state as my absolute opinion: "if you write your first 5 lines of code in any way but the proper, you are heading for disaster"

I know many see me as an old curmudgeon that will not tolerate "the way things are done", but all my (re)actions in that respect to e.g. scribbles called code are related to the above

Erik

PS some of Richards "it must ALL be documented before ..." are very important for consulting, but in a regular job, the reality is, you should be happy if the spec you work from is 80% right. Richard is adamant "do what the boss tell you to do" and I have, outside consulting, never experienced a full spec from "when the boss told us to" start.

List of 73 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
ATMEL AT89C52 Help?            01/01/70 00:00      
   Info            01/01/70 00:00      
      you are ignoring \'the standard\' and the fast            01/01/70 00:00      
         Not ignoring            01/01/70 00:00      
            it does not, but            01/01/70 00:00      
      Anyone want to write simple program for chip for u            01/01/70 00:00      
         \"a few hours\"???            01/01/70 00:00      
         No as simple as you may think            01/01/70 00:00      
            reply            01/01/70 00:00      
               Let's start at the beginning            01/01/70 00:00      
   A Serial Flash chip would be easier            01/01/70 00:00      
   Specification?            01/01/70 00:00      
      what about a "community project"?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Has anyone offered complete C++ for 805x?            01/01/70 00:00      
            yes??            01/01/70 00:00      
               Subset            01/01/70 00:00      
            Would Object Oriented Techniques Be Of Advantage?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Reply specs.            01/01/70 00:00      
         More specifications (and less)            01/01/70 00:00      
            Additional specs. Can you do it?            01/01/70 00:00      
               16 temperature inputs, relay outputs.            01/01/70 00:00      
                  problem is in software            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Lets first choose a chip.            01/01/70 00:00      
                        how many are you going to make?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        It is not just a voltage            01/01/70 00:00      
                  We want to keep it simple            01/01/70 00:00      
         MicroManagement ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Narrowing it down            01/01/70 00:00      
            More specs again            01/01/70 00:00      
               ATMEL AT89C52            01/01/70 00:00      
                  More hw info needed            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Ok. thanks            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Don't assume. Don't "let's say". Go specific!            01/01/70 00:00      
                  dtraight from the horses mouth            01/01/70 00:00      
               Be Specific            01/01/70 00:00      
            shameless self-advertisement            01/01/70 00:00      
               Hi Jan, some user guide?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  documentation... is always a pain... ;-)            01/01/70 00:00      
                     sometimes "hobby projects" are better off            01/01/70 00:00      
                        what's that?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           a techwriter is            01/01/70 00:00      
                              oh I see            01/01/70 00:00      
                           The REAL issue with documentation            01/01/70 00:00      
                              ever done a hobby project, Richard? ;-)            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 not since the '60's ... well, maybe the '70's            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    well, IMHO, hobby projects are exactly the opposite...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       remember the reference to Ultramon51?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          the reward of hobbyist            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             the hobbyist does not need formal documents            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                hobbyist????            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             hobbyist - beginner            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                It's a tradeoff            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Target goals and check lists            01/01/70 00:00      
                              naah            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Smaller companies have to run fast            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    the sad thing is            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Progress            01/01/70 00:00      
                     program interpreted from i2c eeprom?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        possible, but why?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Waiting for first proposal for whole project?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Waiting for complete and precise requirements            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Lets keep on track.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    A joke?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Well said            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       FOR SHAME !!!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Taunting?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          You asked            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          There are AND gates that might work            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Posible            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Well ... depending on the relay ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Useful for others?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Off track? Not at all! Tell us what you want ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   shematic 1            01/01/70 00:00      

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