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???
11/12/07 21:44
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#146907 - Ground...
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Try to imagine such a two layer board with two DIL packages at a distance of about 10cm. Imagine the one sends a signal to the other, without the signal trace running over a solid ground plane.

I've provided solid-ground return paths as much as possible in a two layer board. I was cautious to let all ICs have a solid and low-impedance return to ground and fill the empty area between traces with ground layer.

Then a current loop of an area of let's say 10cm x 5cm =50cm^2 is formed. This loop not only emits a magnetic field, but also recieves magnetic fields from external EMI sources, while the induced voltage is proportional to the loop area.

The amount of EMI emitted by the board itself is trivial. The amount it absorbs can be higher than expected of course compared with a 4 layer design.

So, in this example the proper four layer board design is about 100 times less sensitive to external magnetic fields, then your two layer "solution".

That's correct. Maybe not in magnitude of 100 to 1, but a 4 layer can improve EMI resistance effectively.

Do you still think your problems are caused by the microcontroller?? The microcontroller is only the victim of your improper design, not the cause.

It's not fair to call any 2 layer board as improper design. Of course if I was designing it today from scratch I'd be choosing a 4 layer scheme where GND planes were running free throughout the board like wild animals. :)


List of 88 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Atmel 89 Series and EMI            01/01/70 00:00      
   FAQ            01/01/70 00:00      
      Thanks, but...            01/01/70 00:00      
         yes it is            01/01/70 00:00      
            EMI design consideration...            01/01/70 00:00      
               reset pulses?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Finally a note to the OP            01/01/70 00:00      
                     well, sometimes...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Fire Extinguisher            01/01/70 00:00      
                        extinguisher            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Latched-up CMOS!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     logic, and beyond            01/01/70 00:00      
                     not a cure            01/01/70 00:00      
   EMI Design            01/01/70 00:00      
      restated in one sentence            01/01/70 00:00      
         Don't jump to the conclusion...            01/01/70 00:00      
            then just say "outside the specs, no can do"            01/01/70 00:00      
      Thanks...            01/01/70 00:00      
   What PCB do you use?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Two Layer            01/01/70 00:00      
         No surprise, then!            01/01/70 00:00      
            Ground...            01/01/70 00:00      
               About naked firefighters...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Absolutely it is fair            01/01/70 00:00      
   Some advice            01/01/70 00:00      
      Yes, it's a bunch of measures...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Good points.            01/01/70 00:00      
         No, no, no,....            01/01/70 00:00      
            Remember            01/01/70 00:00      
         CMOS Latch up            01/01/70 00:00      
         NOPE            01/01/70 00:00      
            You think so...            01/01/70 00:00      
               No, it is not            01/01/70 00:00      
               A proper design would stand it!            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Proper design            01/01/70 00:00      
                     some of my definitions            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Me thinks...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        the real point            01/01/70 00:00      
            More advice            01/01/70 00:00      
               Does that mean, that...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  It's the designers responsibility            01/01/70 00:00      
                     No joke, but...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  EMI and 2 layers            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Yes, for tiny projects...            01/01/70 00:00      
               that something is possible/done succesfully            01/01/70 00:00      
   Show us your design...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Why? You want to make fun of it? :)            01/01/70 00:00      
         Or            01/01/70 00:00      
            You mean...            01/01/70 00:00      
               I do not know what Steve ment            01/01/70 00:00      
               Yes !            01/01/70 00:00      
         how about a schematic            01/01/70 00:00      
            Relays            01/01/70 00:00      
               Even then...            01/01/70 00:00      
         From what I can see            01/01/70 00:00      
            Mostly agree.            01/01/70 00:00      
               Layers, layouts...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  are you serious, or did you forget            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Sorry, I forgot...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Is it good?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Just a few points.            01/01/70 00:00      
                           I believe you!            01/01/70 00:00      
                        No harm, usually            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Separate Ground Planes            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Inter-plane coupling            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Cable entry point            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Thanks            01/01/70 00:00      
            what I do ..            01/01/70 00:00      
            half measures            01/01/70 00:00      
            Taking notes...            01/01/70 00:00      
               the downfall of many            01/01/70 00:00      
               Do some tests            01/01/70 00:00      
                  This can be deadly!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Deadly?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        I'm sorry...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Farshad, I would never make fun of it!            01/01/70 00:00      
            Very Informative            01/01/70 00:00      
               Decoupling            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Thank you!            01/01/70 00:00      
               and not a word about 4 layers            01/01/70 00:00      
   paralelling            01/01/70 00:00      
      Why not using 10µF/10V/X5S ceramics?            01/01/70 00:00      
   more information?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Schematics would not be very "helpfil"            01/01/70 00:00      
      More information            01/01/70 00:00      
      The best stuff I have ever seen is...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Sorry, I forgot, that you must suscribe first...            01/01/70 00:00      
      John, I have seen....            01/01/70 00:00      

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