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???
07/26/05 18:06
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#98192 - re kicking and screaming
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Do you mean that ISP is accidentally entered or, on the flip side, ISP mode won't activate when it should? If so, in those cases, how is ISP mode supposed to be entered?
Philips has had a lot of problems with the Rx2H and 66x derivatives when used with a RC reset. They are faultless when used with a proper supervisor. The RC reset has, in many cases, caused these chips to lose a vector that is used when Hardware (I call it "funnly levels") is used to enter ISP. This, of course, is related to Flash and reset, rather than ISP.

I'm not sure if any derivatives do it, but I'd be skeptical of using, say, a long break signal on the UART to enter ISP mode. I can see potential problems with that. But if you use another pin to initiate ISP mode on reset, such as PSEN like TI does, it seems like you'd be pretty safe.
The advantage of the long break is, of course, that you can activate ISP without opening the box. whether it is "safe" or not I have no opinion on at this time.
Anyhow all problems with the Philips chips are gone when using NoTouch.
The latest issuances from Philips (the 89V51.. chips) use a different method: if they see a 'U' within x clock cycles after reset, they enter ISP.

My basic philosophy re ISP is that if I can not rely on a customer, computer-illiterate beyond basic PC skills, to upgrade the code, it may be ISP, but the value is only nominal. If I have to send a technician, replacing a socketed chip is just as easy.

I actually parallel program ISP chips in manufacturing because it is faster, but the value of being able to send an e-mail with "install this on your PC/laptop" and instructions instead of a techie is enormous. We have calculated that to send a techie cost $500+ on avarage and that is using discount airlines.

On another note: my next issue will have a Cypress processor working as an USB master interfaced to 6 '51 processors and a keychain disk as input. I hope to use IAP and this to make a "seamless" program update procedure.

Erik

List of 54 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Unale to Program the AT89S52 TQPF in sys            01/01/70 00:00      
   cable seems too long            01/01/70 00:00      
      Cable ?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Crosstalk?            01/01/70 00:00      
         me too and same result            01/01/70 00:00      
            Modifications...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Tank you very much Kai            01/01/70 00:00      
         my hesitance            01/01/70 00:00      
      Problem Solved :)            01/01/70 00:00      
         Bah,            01/01/70 00:00      
            Wow !            01/01/70 00:00      
            i suspected that....            01/01/70 00:00      
   Coul someone send mo ISP_Programer30a            01/01/70 00:00      
      if you took the time to read            01/01/70 00:00      
         He is asking about ISP            01/01/70 00:00      
            if you need a programmer, you are not do            01/01/70 00:00      
               depends what you call a programmer            01/01/70 00:00      
                  standard signals            01/01/70 00:00      
                     The moon is...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        nice point ;)            01/01/70 00:00      
                        last I looked            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Programmers vs cables            01/01/70 00:00      
                              all is relative            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Kitchen table programmers            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    additionally            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 SPI-ISP vs UART-ISP            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    bit bang and one button            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       programmer            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          no technician needed            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             was the PDA/laptop free?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                yes, the PDA/laptop was free            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   I have seen boxes for configuration            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      free or "cost you nothing"            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         summary?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            sure            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Neat            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Thanks            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    I agree with this            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       ISP is more straighforward            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          hardware is no garantee            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             sure            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Not so sure            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   ISP: SPI vs UART continued...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      True but...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         I know of none            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Do you mean            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               re kicking and screaming            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               issues...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Still sounds like entering ISP problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     my lengthy posts are boring            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     entry of ISP            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        alternative UART-ISP entry            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Kitchenware is what isn't thorougly deve            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       somehow the UART method has escaped all            01/01/70 00:00      

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