Email: Password: Remember Me | Create Account (Free)

Back to Subject List

Old thread has been locked -- no new posts accepted in this thread
???
07/26/05 23:09
Read: times


 
#98229 - issues...
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Philips' and Atmel's RD2s and alike also enter into ISP by pulling down PSEN (and having /EA high etc.). They then vector to an address given by a special FLASH byte (to allow for custom bootloader) - by default FC00 - the "bootvector loss" refers to unwanted rewriting of this byte, effectively committing "ISP-suicide". Erik's wonderful workaround (backdoor) is to reenter ISP from the very start of user program upon activation by the user (holding down an input), but you need to do it from the start.

I also don't take for granted that the "lost bootvector" is a consequence of improper reset. I have my own reasoning, but that's a longer story.

The ISP entry for P89V51RD2 is also an issue - if it gets reset while some serial stream is thrown at it, it can autobaud falsely and never enters the user code. Not to mention, that the datasheet does not specify exactly how long is the waiting for autobaud. From this respect the break is a better method, IMHO.
There is also a "suicidal" element built into the P89V51RD2s bootloader - attempting to program it as P89C51RD2 you switch it into "soft-ice" mode, which is rather complicated to exit... There is an upgrade downloadable from Philips website fixing this (and I hope this version gets burned into the fresh chips now), but most people discovered this after they "locked" the chip...
(Speaking of P89V51RD2, the bad surprise is, that once you activate the x2 mode in ISP, you cannot deactivate it - only using a parallel programmer).

There are, except the mentioned, problems with the autobaud routine, with chosing the proper baudrate for given crystal (or tolerating a certain success-rate). Some autobaud routines also have an inherent imperfection, they can detect wrong speed if you throw a continuos stream of Us with spaces between them during reset.

The ISP entry for the LPC series is again an another issue - you need to apply relatively precisely timed pulses onto RESET - all the beauty of UART programmng flies away. Of course you can use a couple of other methods - but you need to think on it before you program the chip for the first time.

The documentation of ISPs is also not always an open book, for example in an older revision of Atmel's AT 89C51ED2/RD2 datasheet, some of the commands got mixed up and others omitted (maybe it was IAP, but that's the same case). Also, there are sometimes strange requirements covering up for possibly hardware flaw (e.g. the P89C51RD2H requires to repeat the erase bootvector+statusbyte command 6 times in a row).

Also, the bootloaders have sometimes hidden (unpublished) features, e.g. the LPC9xx has a readback function, which is undocumented.

Maybe it is mostly not about flawed bootloader software, but it has its issues.

And again, don't take this is to say SPI-ISP is better in any way - I just did not experiment with it so much (yet).

Jan Waclawek



List of 54 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Unale to Program the AT89S52 TQPF in sys            01/01/70 00:00      
   cable seems too long            01/01/70 00:00      
      Cable ?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Crosstalk?            01/01/70 00:00      
         me too and same result            01/01/70 00:00      
            Modifications...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Tank you very much Kai            01/01/70 00:00      
         my hesitance            01/01/70 00:00      
      Problem Solved :)            01/01/70 00:00      
         Bah,            01/01/70 00:00      
            Wow !            01/01/70 00:00      
            i suspected that....            01/01/70 00:00      
   Coul someone send mo ISP_Programer30a            01/01/70 00:00      
      if you took the time to read            01/01/70 00:00      
         He is asking about ISP            01/01/70 00:00      
            if you need a programmer, you are not do            01/01/70 00:00      
               depends what you call a programmer            01/01/70 00:00      
                  standard signals            01/01/70 00:00      
                     The moon is...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        nice point ;)            01/01/70 00:00      
                        last I looked            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Programmers vs cables            01/01/70 00:00      
                              all is relative            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Kitchen table programmers            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    additionally            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 SPI-ISP vs UART-ISP            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    bit bang and one button            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       programmer            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          no technician needed            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             was the PDA/laptop free?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                yes, the PDA/laptop was free            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   I have seen boxes for configuration            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      free or "cost you nothing"            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         summary?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            sure            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Neat            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Thanks            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    I agree with this            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       ISP is more straighforward            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          hardware is no garantee            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             sure            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Not so sure            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   ISP: SPI vs UART continued...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      True but...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         I know of none            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Do you mean            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               re kicking and screaming            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               issues...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Still sounds like entering ISP problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     my lengthy posts are boring            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     entry of ISP            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        alternative UART-ISP entry            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Kitchenware is what isn't thorougly deve            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       somehow the UART method has escaped all            01/01/70 00:00      

Back to Subject List