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???
11/04/05 12:17
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#103287 - 3 types of tools
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Ian Bell said:

Lets face it, GCC and other freeware offerings have beat the compiler industry down to a shadow of its former self. As with any such dying business, the independents are simply deciding that it is not profitable to remain independent. The CPU makers are willing to subsidize compiler writing in a captive division, but not independent makers. Ian


I think you are partially right. I guess we have three "style" of tools; The CPU makers tools (developed in-house or bought), the independent tool vendors, and gcc.

In my line of business, gcc have seldom been an option. I dont want to talk ill of gcc in any way, I feel this is more of a religion battle than a technical battle. I think most would agree that almoust nothing is "free". gcc is free from cost of license, that is all.

The other two styles is in a way more interesting, because I think they compete more directly. From my experience, you can tell the difference in the long run, based on the simple "why do someone provide these tools to me"? A CPU maker wants the tools to lock you to CPUs provided by that maker. You should be happy using the tools + CPU, but very unhappy if you want to try someone elses CPU. In contrast, the tool vendors market is only the tools. They need to focus on making the user happy based on the tool itself. They infact want to make it easy to try out other CPUs, because this could lead to new compiler seats... I personally like this better, because then the tools from independent vendors becomes my "weapon" to choose for myself what CPU to use based on the price/performance of that CPU.

Ian Bell said:

Judging by the track record, Keil will drop non-arm support sooner or later, my bet is sooner.
Ian


Well, here I agree 100%, but so I have said earlier.

Best Regards

Joseph


List of 90 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
ARM buys Keil!            01/01/70 00:00      
   ARM buys Keil: Good or bad?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Good question!            01/01/70 00:00      
         Can't be bad            01/01/70 00:00      
            Hopefully not...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Revenge            01/01/70 00:00      
         Danger ahead?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Danger Indeed!            01/01/70 00:00      
            Always alternatives            01/01/70 00:00      
               ongoing 8051 compiler development            01/01/70 00:00      
                  There's the answer            01/01/70 00:00      
                     That´s not the answer            01/01/70 00:00      
                        re: not the answer?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           You unfaithful ;-)            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Compiler improvements            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 IDE, sim improvement            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    non-sequitur            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Yes that was a jump            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          IDE            01/01/70 00:00      
                     The answer is simpler than that            01/01/70 00:00      
                        What a pessimist...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Be prepared for....            01/01/70 00:00      
                           this is not even a 5 on the ricter scale            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Is ARM always a better choice?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Keil's website down?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              it was, but isn't            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Windfall is happening?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              What me worry?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        I'm with you Kalpak            01/01/70 00:00      
                           possibly part of it            01/01/70 00:00      
                              But here it is the other way round            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 what about the IDEiots?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    You have a point            01/01/70 00:00      
                           focus on HC08/12            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Exactly my point            01/01/70 00:00      
                        A similar view expressed on a newsgroup            01/01/70 00:00      
                           You have got to be kidding            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Then again            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 ok, but compared to what?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Excellent link            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Agreed            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       EEMBC            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          8052.com            01/01/70 00:00      
                              why Dhrystones?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           8051 is unique?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           plus ca change...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           3 types of tools            01/01/70 00:00      
      Doesn't affect me in the slightest            01/01/70 00:00      
         What's special about software tools?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Fixable            01/01/70 00:00      
               Why?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  My Caprice is 19 years old            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Open source motoring            01/01/70 00:00      
            Cute little cat!            01/01/70 00:00      
               Cost/benefit            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Quick comparison: SDCC vs Keil            01/01/70 00:00      
                     willing to share ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        I would but...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  that's the skinny            01/01/70 00:00      
         Beside the point            01/01/70 00:00      
   ARM buys Keil!            01/01/70 00:00      
      why would that happen?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Well hardly            01/01/70 00:00      
      That's highly unlikely!            01/01/70 00:00      
   Digression: Status of 8051 IP?            01/01/70 00:00      
      roll-your-own            01/01/70 00:00      
         ARM may be targetting MCU maket            01/01/70 00:00      
            They said it before            01/01/70 00:00      
            replacing the 8051            01/01/70 00:00      
      8051 IP - Public Domain?            01/01/70 00:00      
   8051 News            01/01/70 00:00      
      News submission broken            01/01/70 00:00      
         The Reason            01/01/70 00:00      
         lucky you            01/01/70 00:00      
         clock problem            01/01/70 00:00      
   How is Leading 51 seriesMCU vendor?            01/01/70 00:00      
      comments            01/01/70 00:00      
      Tools            01/01/70 00:00      
   just thought of it            01/01/70 00:00      
      just noted            01/01/70 00:00      
         Which ad?            01/01/70 00:00      
            the one I did not see            01/01/70 00:00      
               Display cycle            01/01/70 00:00      
            assurances ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Keil and ARM            01/01/70 00:00      
                  What we've been saying            01/01/70 00:00      
                     cheaper, yes            01/01/70 00:00      
      Deals            01/01/70 00:00      
   a solution            01/01/70 00:00      
      You can keep the IDE            01/01/70 00:00      

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