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???
09/09/04 15:41
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#77141 - RE: Efficiency
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Craig Steiner wrote:
-------------------------------
Yes, but I should imagine the OS (can we really call it an OS?) would be fully aware of what hardware it was connected to and read/write to it as efficiently as possible.


Each of the chips should include an "ID" command so you don't need OS to tell what hardware you're working with. But OS should know that anyway.

It seems that what we had gotten to was an OS API on the central 8052 that application programs would access. The actual OS would then do the work of farming out the operation to the appropriate external hardware


I'd see the OS less like a "father over all the programs" and more like a bunch of library routines that make your life easier but can be thoroughly ignored if you wish so. Plus some kind of shell to allow loading software and can be disposed of when the program is loaded.

I don't see this device being used outside of our little 8052 community so I don't think we're going to see some huge "game programmer" industry springing up.


I for one would write some games for it, for sure :)

I also don't think the programmer would gain much by ignoring the OS and doing it himself since the OS would, in the case of external hardware, mostly exist just to save the programmer the hassle of performing the off-chip communication himself.


General solution is on average 3 times more complex than a specific solution. That applies to efficiency too. Instead of calling a routine scrolling a piece of screen from X to Y I scroll it from 0 to FF and save some 20 cycles which the routine wastes on boundary checks, and it just lets me fit within 1 vblank instead of 2, making the animation smooth.
Circumventing the OS routines was about the most commonly used method of speeding things up.


That's a valid point. But considering the old machines were 1.79 MHz and we could conceivably use a, what, 33-50 MIPS 8052 we'd have to do some insane code bloat to slow things down that much.

You underestimate the speed at which bloat grows if you don't pay close attention.


And, yes, I think we need to call it an OS. It needs to contain functionality to address some external storage, be it IDE hard drive or SD cards, and load/unload programs on demand.

Load. Let the programs handle unloading themselves, just without making it any harder than it really needs to be. (and it's really easy.) :)

I don't really understand how the flexibility to use different display devices will make it seem more like a computer. All it's got to do is plug into the telly and display 320*200 in 16 colours and it'll seem exactly like a computer.


*256?
Pleeeeze? :)



List of 177 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Atari 400/800 implementation with 8052            01/01/70 00:00      
   RE: Atari 400/800 implementation with 8052            01/01/70 00:00      
      Sorry...            01/01/70 00:00      
   RE: Atari 400/800 implementation with 8052            01/01/70 00:00      
   RE: Atari 400/800 implementation with 80            01/01/70 00:00      
   RE: Atari 400/800 implementation with 80            01/01/70 00:00      
   Microprocesor emulator?            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Microprocesor emulator?            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Microprocesor emulator?            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Microprocesor emulator?            01/01/70 00:00      
            6502 emulation            01/01/70 00:00      
               RE: 6502 emulation            01/01/70 00:00      
                  RE: 6502 emulation            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Microprocesor emulator?            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE: Microprocesor emulator?            01/01/70 00:00      
               RE: Microprocesor emulator?            01/01/70 00:00      
               RE: Microprocesor emulator?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  RE: Microprocesor emulator?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  RE: Microprocesor emulator?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     RE: Microprocesor emulator?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        RE: Microprocesor emulator?            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Microprocesor emulator?            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Microprocesor emulator?            01/01/70 00:00      
   RE: Atari 400/800 implementation with 8052            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Atari 400/800 implementation with 80            01/01/70 00:00      
   RE: Atari 400/800 implementation with 8052            01/01/70 00:00      
   Video output with 8052?            01/01/70 00:00      
      VGA?            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Video output with 8052?            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Video output with 8052?            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Video output with 8052?            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE: Video output with 8052?            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE: Video output with 8052?            01/01/70 00:00      
   RE: Atari 400/800 implementation with 8052            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Atari 400/800 implementation with 8052            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Atari 400/800 implementation with 80            01/01/70 00:00      
         Do we really need 6502 emulation?            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE: Do we really need 6502 emulation?            01/01/70 00:00      
               RE: Do we really need 6502 emulation?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  I'm game!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     RE: I'm game!            01/01/70 00:00      
                        RE: I'm game!            01/01/70 00:00      
                           RE: I'm game!            01/01/70 00:00      
                              RE: I\'m game!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 RE: I\'m game!            01/01/70 00:00      
   8052-based video or off-chip solution            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: 8052-based video or off-chip solutio            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: 8052-based video or off-chip solution            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: 8052-based video or off-chip solution            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: 8052-based video or off-chip solution            01/01/70 00:00      
      My My...Where is the OLD spirit?            01/01/70 00:00      
   RE: Atari 400/800 implementation with 8052            01/01/70 00:00      
      LCD?            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: LCD?            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE: LCD motiv?            01/01/70 00:00      
   Revisiting video & emulation            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Revisiting video & emulation            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Revisiting video & emulation            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE: Revisiting video & emulation            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE: Revisiting video & emulation            01/01/70 00:00      
               RE: Revisiting video & emulation            01/01/70 00:00      
                  RE: Revisiting video & emulation            01/01/70 00:00      
                  RE: Revisiting video & emulation            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Revisiting video & emulation            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Revisiting video & emulation            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE: Revisiting video & emulation            01/01/70 00:00      
               RE: Revisiting video & emulation            01/01/70 00:00      
                  RE: Revisiting video & emulation            01/01/70 00:00      
                     RE: Revisiting video & emulation            01/01/70 00:00      
                        RE: Revisiting video & emulation            01/01/70 00:00      
                           RE: Revisiting video & emulation            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Phillip implements 8052 video            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 RE: Phillip implements 8052 video            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Phillip video user page            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       RE: Phillip video user page            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Silabs as video chip            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             RE: Silabs as video chip            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       RE: Phillip video user page            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          RE: Phillip video user page            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             RE: Phillip video user page            01/01/70 00:00      
                              RE: Revisiting video & emulation            01/01/70 00:00      
   WHY?            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: WHY?            01/01/70 00:00      
      None of the above            01/01/70 00:00      
   Programmable logic again            01/01/70 00:00      
   Defining the project & new ideas            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Defining the project & new ideas            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Defining the project & new ideas            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Defining the project & new ideas            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE: Defining the project & new ideas            01/01/70 00:00      
               RE: Defining the project & new ideas            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Defining the project & new ideas            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Defining the project & new ideas            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE: Defining the project & new ideas            01/01/70 00:00      
               RE: Defining the project & new ideas            01/01/70 00:00      
                  RE: Defining the project & new ideas            01/01/70 00:00      
                     RE: Efficiency            01/01/70 00:00      
                        RE: Efficiency            01/01/70 00:00      
                           RE: Efficiency            01/01/70 00:00      
                              RE: Efficiency            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 RE: Purpose of OS/Relocatable code            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    RE: Purpose of OS/Relocatable code            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       RE: Purpose of OS/Relocatable code            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          RE: Purpose of OS/Relocatable code            01/01/70 00:00      
                     RE: Defining the project & new ideas            01/01/70 00:00      
                        RE: Defining the project & new ideas            01/01/70 00:00      
                     RE: Defining the project & new ideas            01/01/70 00:00      
   Take a look            01/01/70 00:00      
   Starting specifications?            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Starting specifications?            01/01/70 00:00      
         I2C vs. parallel bus            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Starting specifications?            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Serial vs. parallel internal bus            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE: Serial vs. parallel internal bus            01/01/70 00:00      
      Then parallel..            01/01/70 00:00      
   RE: Atari 400/800 implementation with 8052            01/01/70 00:00      
      Re: Architecture questions            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Atari 400/800 implementation with 80            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Atari 400/800 implementation with 80            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE: Atari 400/800 implementation with 80            01/01/70 00:00      
               RE: Atari 400/800 implementation with 80            01/01/70 00:00      
                  RE: Atari 400/800 implementation with 80            01/01/70 00:00      
   Proposal: Internal Data Bus            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Proposal: Internal Data Bus            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Proposal: Internal Data Bus            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE: Command/Data line            01/01/70 00:00      
               RE: Command/Data line            01/01/70 00:00      
                  RE: Command/Data line            01/01/70 00:00      
                     RE: just recalled another            01/01/70 00:00      
                        RE: just recalled another            01/01/70 00:00      
                     RE: Alternative bus strategies            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Proposal: Internal Data Bus            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Proposal: Internal Data Bus            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Proposal: Internal Data Bus            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE: Proposal: Internal Data Bus            01/01/70 00:00      
               RE: Proposal: Internal Data Bus            01/01/70 00:00      
                  RE: Proposal: Internal Data Bus            01/01/70 00:00      
                     RAM quantity & Interrupts            01/01/70 00:00      
                        RE: RAM quantity & Interrupts            01/01/70 00:00      
      Where's the memory?            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Shared memory as the data bus?            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Where\'s the memory?            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE: Multiport/DMA limitations            01/01/70 00:00      
               RE: Multiport/DMA limitations            01/01/70 00:00      
                  DMA on the Atari            01/01/70 00:00      
                     RE: DMA on the Atari            01/01/70 00:00      
                        RE: DMA on the Atari            01/01/70 00:00      
                           RE: DMA on the Atari            01/01/70 00:00      
                           RE: DMA on the Atari            01/01/70 00:00      
               RE: Multiport/DMA limitations Yes But..            01/01/70 00:00      
   Future of this project            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Future of this project            01/01/70 00:00      
         Purpose of the project            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE: Purpose of the project            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Future of this project            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Future of this project            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Future of this project            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Future of this project            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Future of this project            01/01/70 00:00      
   RE: Atari 400/800 implementation with 80            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Atari games on CD            01/01/70 00:00      
   RE: Multiprocessing/ebay/vintage_puters            01/01/70 00:00      
   RE: Karas the Big Party Pooper            01/01/70 00:00      
      That's the point            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Karas the Big Party Pooper            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Karas the Big Party Pooper            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE: Karas the Big Party Pooper            01/01/70 00:00      
               RE: in a grid            01/01/70 00:00      
                  RE: in a grid            01/01/70 00:00      
                     RE: in a grid            01/01/70 00:00      
                        RE: in a grid            01/01/70 00:00      
                           RE: in a grid            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: Karas the Big Party Pooper            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Karas the Big Party Pooper            01/01/70 00:00      
   RE: Atari 400/800 implementation with 8052            01/01/70 00:00      
   About the multiprocessor scheme            01/01/70 00:00      
   Home built 8051 computer??            01/01/70 00:00      

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